CV Vs Stainless

K

KCkc

Joined
Jun 1, 2006
Messages
170
Hi all,
I like Stainless because I have no clue how to take care of my knives and it sould like low maintenance.

I notice that posters in this forum prefer CV blades for the slip joints (Case, Queen, S&M).
Can you tell me more ?

Is it because it is easier to sharpen ?
How do you keep it rust-free ?
Does CV rust easily e.g.if I do not wiped it with some kind of oil each day ?
What kind of oil do I use since Tuf-Cloth will cause mild stomach discomfort as I intend to use my knife for cutting food (just in case)?

Thanks,
KCkc
 
I have 5 Case CV knives but no Case SS knives. I've read on this forum from first hand users that the Case SS is not that bad. The Case SS knives come in a lot of nice handle choices while CV comes in yellow, amber, and red.
 
The best way to avoid rust on these CV blades is to use them. Start off by cutting some fruits and veggies. You will see a grey patina on the blade in no time. A nice patina will keep it fine under nomal use and care. You really should not have to oil the blades (unless the knife gets drenched), just the pivot area and backspring very lightly after you have cleaned the knife. You will know by the action when it needs lube. You can get by with mineral oil on your eating knives. Just clean the knife before you oil it and I would not use veggie oil or any other oil that might gum up. (attracks more dirt).

Once that patina is formed you can wash the blade and dry it off well and not be concered about rust if you are using the knife. They will rust, but you have to work at it and neglect it. ;)
 
KC, you can use food grade mineral oil on your knives. A very light coating will do. I do this on any knife I will be using for food. Thanks to the folks here I also found out that mineral oil is good for dried out horn, stag, and bone.

CV, which is what Case uses, takes a good edge and holds it pretty well, plus resharpens easily. A lot of folks consider 1095 carbon steel to do it even better, but the higher chromium content in Chrome Vanadium (CV) makes it a "little" more resistant to corrosion than straight 1095. Carbon steel blades will discolor over time and use, and when coming into contact with food acids such as apples, etc.. A lot of carbon/CV users will go ahead and put a patina on their blades which greys and darkens them. This is essentially controlled oxidation. This is pretty much the same thing happening as with gun bluing, the oxidation forms a protective coating on the metal and a uniform coloration. Some folks also don't like the coloration and choose to just keep their knives carefully cleaned and oiled, polishing them when they do discolor. Your choice. You can do a search in the folder for patina and should find some past postings that cover various methods for putting a patina on a blade.

The Case stainless steel isn't bad, except in direct comparison with good CV/carbon steel. I would probably rank it just a tad behind well heat treated 440A or C. There have been a few Case knives/periods over the years that haven't been the best, but overall it works pretty good for general use. I've found 440A and 440C to be good stainless steels that for me acts a lot like carbon steel. By that I mean they sharpen up well, have the same "feel" on the stones to me, hold an edge and resharpen easily and quickly.

My experience with the new stainless darling that you will find on various knives like S&M, etc, which is 420HC is limited, but unimpressed. I have a couple of knives in it that I like, but I'm not that fond of the steel. When sharpening, it feels different to me. I know that isn't a quantifiable characteristic, but since I freehand sharpen it is important to me. It took a while to get to where I could get a decent edge on my 420HC blades. Even so, they still don't seem to get to that same fine edge I can get on carbon steel/CV and on 440A & C. Other's may think different and that's fine and just as valid. We each know what does and doesn't work for us.

Hope that wasn't too windy. It's a bit humid here around San Antonio, less than some places I've been, more than others. However, we get plenty of opportunity to sweat. I've not really had a problem with CV knives over the summer. I just wipe them down once in a while and if I've used them on food or other damp stuff I wipe them dry after use and give them a light coat of oil again at the end of the day. I'm fine with them taking on a patina from honest use and carry so don't, pardon the pun, sweat it.

Welcome, by the way. You will find some pretty savy fellows on here, most of which have forgotten more than I know. Pretty knice fellers too.

Amos
 
Stainless, at least Case and Queen's version, has always seemed almost gummy to me. Hard to get that ultrafine edge.

As for carbon in the kitchen, my favorite kitchen knife is an Opinel #6, in straight carbon. Black as the night, but not a speck of rust. :D
 
Some of my carbon steel blades seem to attract rust and some don't for some reason. When I have a blade that likes to rust, I patinize it in some apple cider vinegar heated up in the microwave. That will put a heavy oxide coat on it that wards off rust. It will also turn your blade black, which I think looks kind of cool, but some might not like. If so try room temperature vinegar or lemon juice and only patinize it until you get a light oxide coat. If it gets too dark for you, don't worry, it will lighten with use. Same thing if it comes out splotchy -- it will even out with use. However to avoid uneven patina, make sure the blade is clean and dry before you begin.

Good luck,

Jim
 
You got some pretty good advices already :thumbup: and I just want to mention one problem to avoid at fixed blades.
When stored wet in their sheath the tannic acid might produce rust on the blade. So always dry the blade well before putting into the sheath and for longtime storage better leave them out of the sheath. Some oil on the blade will protect it nicely.
For your needs of preparing food you can use the Brunox brand Lubri-Food :thumbup: which has the certificate for beeing used in food industry for maintainance of machines and appliances for example.
I also use the good? :rolleyes: old Ballistol. :D
 
For some people carbon steel blades are a religion :) Personally I love the good finish of a satin stainless and the high shiny polish of stainless. If a knifemaker's going to invest time to make me a mirror polish, I'd like it to stay that way. That's why my favorite steel for shiny slipjoints is ATS34 or 440C. Far as my needs go, these steels are good enough in terms of edge holding and boy I love a pretty knife. Don't get me wrong, I like carbon steel but in a rustic pattern in stag to go with the grey stained blade, but with bolsters and pearl I prefer stainless.
 
Most American made stainless slipjoints are going to be 420HC. That's what Case Tru-Sharp is and its what Queen uses for most of thier's. If its a higher end steel, they'll let you know. With a good heat treat, 420HC is a very useable steel. I'm still a bit leary of Case's. Had some bad expierences with Tru-Sharp. From what I understand, they've become more consistent in recent years and are doing a better job with it. I've had very good luck with 420HC from Queen and Buck. I do have a Case Hobo that sees a lot of use and does pretty well. Its my away from home and too-lazy-to-go-upstairs-to-the-kitchen eating knife. Carbon is still my favorite. There's just something about a good patina.

Leo
 
I too think that the 420HC stainless that American slip joint makers presently use is serviceable. For opening mail, cutting string, and slicin' fruit, or for general carry on those hot sweaty days I have no complaints. For instance, I toted along a stainless Trapper to the August church picnic 'cause it seemed just the right tool for stabbin' the last pickle out of the bottom of the jar. If I am going out to work in the backyard and believe I'll do some heavy cuttin' then generally I will pocket my old Western Brand carbon stockman as I can get the edges wicked sharp and bring them back up that way with little effort.....and the stockman has three blades to choose from for a variety of tasks. After all those years of use and abuse that old stockman has a nice patina on it's blades, and I don't concern myself with the fear of rust. The only way to really find out what works for you is to try out the various steels for yourself. For instance, I find I will need to give a Case Tru-Sharp blade a quick session on my stones once a week if it gets used heavily during the week.....and then it never gets that real fine edge on it like I can get on my carbon blades. But that's ok....I know what to expect when I use it and about how long I can cut with it before I begin to feel it dull. My advice is to find some patterns you like and seem useful to you and get one in each type of steel. Then you will know the characteristics of each for yourself.

-Best regards
 
Speaking of Tru-Sharp and other 420HC knives. Is 420HC what Case has always been using over the past 20 years or so? 420HC has been vexing to me. I have a couple of non-Case knives in 420HC that just feel slippery to me on the stones like I can't quite feel the edge, yet other knives, such as many of my Case SS blades, early 80s and 2000s feel more like a 440 on the stones. Vexing.
 
I quit having discussions on steel some time ago but am simply not a fan of mass produced knives that use steel like 420HC. There is no comparison to the premium knife steels. But, I have to say that I decided some time ago in a forum on steel that the average guy will be okay with whatever mass produced steel is used. We just don't use knives like we think we do.
 
For a pocket knife, I get just as good sharpness and depending on the heat treatment just as good or better edge retention with ATS34 and 440C compared to 1095. Plus, when you forget to wipe off the blade, the edge doesn't rust.

Some people say that ATS34 and 440C are more prone to chipping and breakage, however I've never had that problem. The real cause of edge chipping for pocket knives is edge thickness. On a thin edged 1095 queen, I chipped the edge prying open a walnut shell. I should have known better, the edge was really thin. It doesn't happen with a 1095 with a thicker edge...never happend with ATS34. I use walnut shells as a test bed for pocket knives. They are really hard and you need a good edge to whittle them :)
 
brownshoe said:
For a pocket knife, I get just as good sharpness and depending on the heat treatment just as good or better edge retention with ATS34 and 440C compared to 1095. Plus, when you forget to wipe off the blade, the edge doesn't rust.

Some people say that ATS34 and 440C are more prone to chipping and breakage, however I've never had that problem. The real cause of edge chipping for pocket knives is edge thickness. On a thin edged 1095 queen, I chipped the edge prying open a walnut shell. I should have known better, the edge was really thin. It doesn't happen with a 1095 with a thicker edge...never happend with ATS34. I use walnut shells as a test bed for pocket knives. They are really hard and you need a good edge to whittle them :)
Click to expand...

You too? I love whittling walnut shells. Still haven't found any knife that will stand up to them for too long though. Making my edges thicker would probaly help, but I hate, loath and abhor thick edges.

Leo
 
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