D2 and patina?

S

SpyderJon

Joined
Jan 27, 2002
Messages
2,038
Howdy all! I'm looking at possibly getting a Queen knife in D2, but I have a question first. My 1095 slipjoints all have a rather pretty patina on the blades. Though they might have gotten a little rust on them, that was only a slight problem. I have to wonder though, if D2 will gain the same kind of patina, or if it will simply rust. Again, the patina helps to keep my knives from becoming too crusted with rust, but the D2 might simply rust, and that's not what I want. Should I just go ahead and take the plunge on the Mooremaker congress instead of the D2? I've also heard about problems with chipping in the queens, which has never been a problem with my 1095 knives. Thanks for your time, and I certainly thank you for all of your responses!

Sincerely,
Anthony
 
Stop agonizing about it and get the D2. As a knife steel D2 is considered semi stainless. It's not going to rust but it will discolor a bit or develop a patina if you like .It is a wonderful knife steel and I don't think you will regrete it.
 
I have been considering the same knife in D-2. can anyone give us some input ?
 
I bought a three bladed stockman in D2 from Queen for my oldest brother for Christmas last year. He uses and abuses knives more than most people. The blades haven't rusted at all and show no patina. As far as I know, the only maintenance that my brother does is wiping it off when it's wet and washing it when it's dry. I've sharpened it for him a couple of times and it sharpens fairly easily (not as easy as 1095, but easier than my Dad's custom in S60V). He claims it holds an edge better than the Buck stockman he used to carry, and about the same as the Boker with carbon steel blades that it replaced. He did chip the spey blade using it for a screwdriver, but neither of the other two blades show any chips, and he routinely cuts small copper wiring with it. The fit and finish of the Queen's that I have seen isn't great, but they are priced right and are a great using knife.:)

Todd
 
I was carrying a Queen D2 small stockman while picking grapes, and a few grapes found their way into my pocket. I didn't discover this for several hours. Where they contacted the blades there was a nice patina.
 
...I was on the Big Sur coast for 2 weeks this spring, carrying a D2 Arclite for the entire time. If you have been there in the spring, you know that 6 solid days of peasoup fog is not an exception. No matter what I did, the knife was slightly damp all the time. I wiped it off when I could, just with an untreated cloth. I didn't get any rust or discolouration.

Thom
 
D2 is not stainless, but because of its makeup it tends to be rust resistent. If you want a patina then try leaving mayonasse, navel jelly, or something with acid acid on the blade overnight. I have an A.G. Russell edc in D2 that I use outdoors and it has never rusted yet. I just wipe the blade off when i am finished using it.
 
While D2 has a high Cr content, the Carbon percentage is so high there is little free Cr left to offer signifiant corrosion resistance. D2 will rust readily in corrosive enviroments and will pit badly unlike plain carbon and low alloy steels which tend to patina and take surface coats of rust.

-Cliff
 
I have to differ with Cliff here. Looking at the chemical makeup of D2, it does appear that D2 will rust readily, but I have found that it is much more stain resistent than the lower alloy steels. The aforementioned Queen slipjoint in D2 is used primarily in south Mississippi, which is quite humid. I use a fixed blade that I made from D2 regularly at work that shows no rusting, pits or otherwise. I live and work on the southwest coast of Florida, which is a pretty harsh environment for steel(current temp.: 86 degrees, humidity: 90%). With that said, D2 will rust more than the steels that are "stainless" by industry standards. To be considered stainless, a steel must have 14% chromium in its makeup(I think that's the right number). Depending on the source, D2 has 12 to 14 percent. When D2 does rust, Cliff is corect. It shows tiny pits, rather than the surface rust common to lower alloy steels.
 
Todd Robbins :

I have to differ with Cliff here. Looking at the chemical makeup of D2, it does appear that D2 will rust readily ...
Click to expand...

That is probably too strong a statement, it has some free Cr, just not nearly as much as steels like AISI 420 or AUS-6A, two very stainless steels which are not so carbide heavy. D2 is much better at resisting surface corrosion than steels like L6 which can will take a visble patina almost instantly if exposed to acidic vegetables.

But such steels just tend to take surface rust whereas D2 will pit deeply in corrosive enviroments. Side by side salt water soaks show such carbon blades actaually fare much better than D2 and the other semi-stainless steels like ATS-34, VG-10 and the like. The defination of stainless by Cr content quite frankly is out of date and doesn't apply well to the high carbon cutlery steels.

Will you see rust on D2, that depends on your enviroment. Do you see rust on carbon blades on a regular basis, if not then D2 will obviously have no problem. However if you get spotting on ATS-34 or other similar steels you are likely to see similar but worse problems with D2.

-Cliff
 
I believe that the criterion for stainlees steel is that there has to be 10% Cr left over after carbide formation. This forms a coating of Cr Oxides that protects the steel. D2 has between 11% to 12% Cr depending on manufacturer and around 1.55% C by weight, which will form Martensite plus carbides. There is also 0.8% to 1.0% V and Mo for carbide formation.

I have made knives with D2 for several years and prefer it over everything except S30V. I have had no problems or complaints with corrosion. They will rust if abused, but the only pitting I have seen is the orange peel texture that you get from over buffing. If you wipe off the blade after use it will stay rust free. The only way I know to get a patina is to purposely stain or etch the blade.
 
My Case trapper pocketnife rusts almost daily, but my utility knife in D2 does not. One could make the argument that my perspiration makes the pocketknife rust, while the fixed blade isn't exposed to that in its sheath, but the fixed blade gets used in saltwater or brackish water regularly. A quick wipe-off and a little oil when it needs sharpening is its only maintenance, yet it remains rust free. I do agree that D2 isn't as rust free as the stainless steels with more free chromium, and, when rust does show up, it is usually nasty.

Todd
 
Cliff,
I just reread your last post, and I must apoligize, for it seems that we are making the same argument: D2 is more rust resistent than the simpler alloys, but not as rust resistent as the "stainless" steels. :)

Todd
 
shgeo :

I believe that the criterion for stainlees steel is that there has to be 10% Cr left over after carbide formation.
Click to expand...

This would be a more useful defination, however the raw Cr% is what is usually used, which was functional way back when stainless steels didn't have near the C% that they do now.

I have had no problems or complaints with corrosion. They will rust if abused, but the only pitting I have seen is the orange peel texture that you get from over buffing. If you wipe off the blade after use it will stay rust free.
Click to expand...

Well if wipe any steel off after use it won't rust, even the very highly corrosive steels like L6 need time in even acidic solutions for rust to be induced. For them it is a short time, less than a minute. But if you wiped the blade down after every cut you still would not get rust.

It isn't difficult to keep corrosion off a blade if you clean and dry it on a regular basis, unless you are in a very corrosive enviroment, such as on or near the salt water with a very high humidity or in the tropics or elsewhere where rain and high humidity is frequent.

-Cliff
 
The 10% free Cr is not just a useful definition, it is the definition of stainless steel. The raw percentages are just the generic definition. If use search on stainless steel you can find this.

Also, I wipe off all my blades after use, including stainless. Without extra care, low Cr like O1 and A2 will rust at times. With D2 this has not happened in my experience. The amount of preventive care needed is much less than for low Cr steel.
 
shgeo :

The 10% free Cr is not just a useful definition, it is the definition of stainless steel.
Click to expand...

Not universal, the raw percentage defination in still common in materials texts. Note as well that defining it by the amount of free Cr would mean it would change depending on the heat treatment which is problematic for various reasons.

[D2]

The amount of preventive care needed is much less than for low Cr steel.
Click to expand...

Yes, it does resist surface rust easier, on the downside it pits worse in highly corrosive enviroments.

-Cliff
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top