D2 Blade Use

ChuckSmith · May 9, 2001

For tha past several years I have been using knives made by Bob Dozier....I find them to be tops for what I require in a knife. They cut like no other I have ever used and they are quickly brought back to sharp with little effort. Bob has mastered the D2 steel IMO and his heat treating makes it stay sharp longer than any others I have used. Even when "dulled" somewhat it still cuts like a demon! My EDC is an older "original" Personal and a small Folding Hunter. My personal choice for a defense blade is a Model 6 with the top edge sharpened.

ARtsig1 · May 10, 2001

Chuck,
I also like the Dozier's. I have an Agent that is a great cutter and great all purpose knife. The D-2 is easy to bring back up IF it ever gets dull. The model 6 is a great one. I HAD, read that and picture me kicking myself, one that had the sharpened top edge but sold it. Had no clip and I was out of my mind at the time. Just got aBuckhunter folder that does have a clip. Been carrying it for the past couple days and really like it as an edc. The 3.75" clip point blade is handy for a lot of purposes and would make a great defensive knife if needed. The D-2 is wickedly sharp on this one also. Bob's folder construction results in a solidly locked up blade when open. The Tab-Lock system makes for a rigid blade.

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Art Sigmon
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me"
Php. 4:13

"For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword"
Heb. 4:12

budrichard · May 10, 2001

There is sharp, scary sharp and Dozier sharp! Nothing that I have or have used compares to Dozier sharp in D2. The closest I have is a Japanese Shashimi knife in laminated steel. This has an 11" blade and if you drop it, stand back! Next is a John Smith forged fighter. I realize that this may be a controversial statement, but Dozier sharp D2 knives requires more carefull handling than most other knives or you can severly hurt yourself. My first Dozier took only 24 hours to nick me. Bob says that they generally go right to the bone and only two of his fingers are not stiched. Dick

matthew rapaport · May 10, 2001

Agree with you all re. "Dozier Sharp", and he certainly knows how to treat that particular steel. But the ability to bring the knife edge back quickly has more to do with his edge profile (the deep hollow grind he likes to use) than any magic in the steel I think.

I get nicked by most of my knives eventually, and my one Dozier (a second on the way) was no exception. Thanks to that knife, I've learned now to wrap a blade in heavy cloth when I'm sizing a lanyard for a knife...

ARtsig1 · May 9, 2001

Matthew,
I agree with your statement about resharpening. The Buckhunter I just got has that high, deep hollow grind. With a bladethickness of around .190" it looks terrific. Dozier Sharp, I like that!

------------------
Art Sigmon
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me"
Php. 4:13

"For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword"
Heb. 4:12

Barry H · May 9, 2001

I had an opportunity to pick up a Dozier Tab-1 folder in March. I had toyed with the idea of getting a small Sebenza, but I chose the Dozier. Smart move on my part. After I owned it for 6 weeks, I finally decided to put it into use. Opening isn't as easy as the Sebenzas, but I got use to it. Perhaps if the scale was slightly scalloped so that one could get more bite on the thumb stud, it would open easier (for me, anyway).
Yesterday I was shimming out commercial Pella windows and was using the tab-1 all day long. Granted, ceder shims aren't that hard. But I bet I shaved 300 shims. And I could still shave arm hairs at the end of the day. Dozier makes great knives. They are built to be used hard.
IMHO,
Barry H

Bugs3x · May 11, 2001

I have a question I've been wanting to ask, directed more at the thread title than just Dozier's knives. My question is based upon the distinct possibility that somewhere not too far down the road, I may get a manufactured knife with D-2.

My memory is quite faulty. Short term is a joke. But stuff I read, has a weird pattern. I can remember just parts of things. I'm convinced that in one of Wayne Goddard's Blade question/answer columns several issues back, a question was asked about the value of D2 as a blade steel. If I recall correctly, Goddard acknowledged that Dozier -- and maybe one other custom maker -- had mastered D2, particularly the heat treat, and made great knives from it. But, he said, he thought it was a steel that "just wouldn't cut." I think he said something about someone giving him a beautiful knife w/D2 blade that absolutely could not cut through a piece of rope. He may even have tried to sharpen it himself.

So, my question then, are the D2 blades in other customs and manufactured knives actually better than most steels, or maybe even actually inferior. I know that people seem to really like the enhanced D2, but am not sure how knowledgeable they are. Of course, Goddard is not perfect, but he always impresses me as very open-minded.

Can someone hopefully answer this convoluted question?

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Asi es la vida

Bugs

A. G. Russell · May 11, 2001

Originally posted by Bugs3x:
My memory is quite faulty. Short term is a joke. But stuff I read, has a weird pattern. I can remember just parts of things. I'm convinced that in one of Wayne Goddard's Blade question/answer columns several issues back, a question was asked about the value of D2 as a blade steel. If I recall correctly, Goddard acknowledged that Dozier -- and maybe one other custom maker -- had mastered D2, particularly the heat treat, and made great knives from it. But, he said, he thought it was a steel that "just wouldn't cut." I think he said something about someone giving him a beautiful knife w/D2 blade that absolutely could not cut through a piece of rope. He may even have tried to sharpen it himself.

Bugs: I bow to no man where faaulty memory is concerned, sometimes I lose my place in the middle of a sentence. Wayne Goddard clearly stated that he knew one maker, Bob Dozier who had "mastered D2", throwing in "maybe one other" was just covering his ass, if he knew another he would have named him. (writers have to have good memorys).

D2 is a complex steel and needs to be handled carfully in the heat-treat. Dozier has something special going, even better than a "SECRET" steel that any metalurgest can duplicate. If you want a great D2 knife what is the problem with ordering it from Bob? The other option is to buy factory D2 knives or from people offering handmade knives of D2 and using them and if they do not do as well as you expect THEN ordering one from Bob.
Do I have a stake in Dozier Knives?, only if you buy them from me.
all the best,
A. G.

Cliff Stamp · May 11, 2001

Before you get caught up in the steel, try to use another knife with a similar high performance grind. How a knife is ground directly controls how it cuts which significantly effects how much stress the edge sees and thus is a strong influence on the edge retention.

As an example, right now I am in the middle of some edge retention work on a Running Dog Tanto in 15n20 (swedish L6). I have done over 1250 hard cuts into various scrap wood and it is still very aggresively cutting through 1/4" poly with low force. It still doesn't even need a full slice to cut through the rope.

I am not saying that Dozier does not heat treat his D2 to a higher standard, but simply that what *may* be a significant factor is the geometry. You might want to look at a blade by another maker who also grinds high performance blades like Boye, Wilson, Schott etc., or even the Deerhunter from A.G. Russell .

All that being said, a nice light utility knife from Dozier is high on my list because of the many strong endorsement he gets, and while I have never handled one, it seems obvious that he grinds to a high performance geometry.

-Cliff

OwenM · May 11, 2001

So, my question then, are the D2 blades in other customs and manufactured knives actually better than most steels, or maybe even actually inferior. I know that people seem to really like the enhanced D2, but am not sure how knowledgeable they are.

I hope Rob Simonich isn't drinking anything that'll be hard on his sinuses when he reads that

Bugs3x · May 11, 2001

Thanks A.G. I appreciate the reinforcement and the suggestions. I've been arm wrestling myself all over the place on whether or not to buy one of the Forum D2E SIFUs from Mike T. You're probably right about getting one directly from Bob Dozier. Rightly, wrongly, or indifferently, have not made the mental leap to where I consider it possible to buy myself a well-made custom. I may be getting there. Saw a beautiful little fixed blade that I want real bad!

GOSH! I certainly meant no offense to Rob Simonich or any other maker, or any particular person. I only meant that I recall reading several posts by "regular" forumites, whose identity isn't available in my sieve-like mind, who might not have the breadth of experience to speak knowledgeably on the subject. Let's face it, some people get awfully enthusiastic about things. For instance, I read a thread today, where a new Sebbie owner flatly stated no custom can approach the Sebenza. Sorry, I can't perceive that as a objective evaluation.

Obviously, one point I am aware of, that I should have mentioned, is that obviously D2 and D2E are increasingly being used in the manufacturing world. Obviously, those makers believe that it is a good steel, or at least one desirable for a good-sized constituency. I have just had that statement by Wayne Goddard bouncing around in the morass of my mind, bothering me every once in awhile when reading about D2.

Again, thanks all. Mucho apologies if I have somehow managed again to put my foot in it.

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Asi es la vida

Bugs

Ebbtide · May 12, 2001

Bugs!
I'm not sure of the exact $ amounts, but, for about the same price as a sifu, you could get a Dozier (small FB, mebbe K-9)! Granted they are 2 completely different animals...but you will love a Dozier

(edited for bad math)

[This message has been edited by Ebbtide (edited 05-12-2001).]

rdangerer · May 12, 2001

Originally posted by Bugs3x:
If I recall correctly, Goddard acknowledged that Dozier -- and maybe one other custom maker -- had mastered D2, particularly the heat treat, and made great knives from it. But, he said, he thought it was a steel that "just wouldn't cut."

I remember an article where they were talking about the CPM steels, and apparently Dozier had tried some 440V and didn't care for it, and that was about all they could quote from Dozier with reference to 440V ... "It won't cut"... or "It doesn't cut" or something overly succinct that left a lot of questions unanswered. Then Dozier offered he'd heard good things about 420V but hadn't tried it yet. Seems like it was one of those weird, rambling, hodgepodge articles with little snippets from various makers...that says it must've been Blade magazine.

Wayne Goddard appears to like D2 very much, based on numerous comments scattered around his (interesting, hodgepodge, unindexed) book called "Wonder of Knifemaking":

From Goddard:
"When properly heat treated, D2 makes about as good a knife as could be wanted".

"D2 is one of my favorite steels for making hard working, stock removal knives."

Apparently Wayne bought a pile of old scrap industrial planer blades, blades from Ohio Knife Co. OK-6 D2. But after what I'm guessing was an x-ray fluorescence materials test, he found out his D2 contained an extra 0.3% carbon, and an extra 0.26% vanadium, and some extra "goodies" as he said: 0.105% nickel and 0.023% tungsten.

As to production stuff in D2, I don't own any. My D2 is mostly Dozier w/ one Lile piece & one Brend piece.

I would venture a couple guesses w/ production vendors w/ D2:
1. D2's standard heat treat is well known (Wayne has 2 slightly different D2 guidelines in his one book)
2. D2 requires cryogenic quench to get nearly full conversion of austenite over to martensite.
3. Perfecting/tweaking D2's heat treat, like Dozier has, takes time and energy, and I doubt the production houses have done too much here (but don't know), unless they paid Paul Bos to set up their heat treat for them (I'd guess you could trust Bos' D2 treat to be in the same league w/ Dozier).

Look for a production vendor that says they cryo their blades for one, and that should help, directionally at least, in getting a good blade.

Dozier's small to medium fixed blades are in the $145 - $170 range.
www.dozierknives.com

[This message has been edited by rdangerer (edited 05-12-2001).]

db · May 12, 2001

What makes you beleave that a cryo treatment is preferred or necessary, or even a benefit?