D2>>>>Kabar 1282>>>>should we get 1 or not?

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flamegate

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HI,

I am considering a Kabar 1282 with that D2 blad3, I know that the down side of it is that D2 rusts quite quickly, however 1282's got that black epoxy coating on the blade(just don't know how, just if it may, come off :confused: _might that be a problem since 'D2 rusts and oh my it rusts!').

I saw somewhere on the forum some saying that today when D2 is more and more into knife production, ATS34 can only be graded as 'bottom line'; and as well I just saw today somewhere sort of chart listing the toughness/RC/rust_resis. of BG42, 440V, ATS34 and that D2, I figured out that D2's got no absolute advantage among any of these properties! While being poor rust_resistance at 3 out of 10! well, let's just say it's not a S/S which is true.

SO I did want this 'D2 extreme fighting' but now I'm kinda stuck. I don't wanna afford a kustom knife. But do you dudes think I should still hook up to it? Or maybe get a Kabar next gen. of 12C27 steel instead??

Thanks for looking and thanks for any and all comments!!

SUPPORT OUR TROOPS! :grumpy:
 
D2 is a very hard steel, but I'm not convinced (from research only) that it is a particularly tough steel. Seems to me that it would be a great steel for slicing , but not necessarily a great steel for prying or high impact activity. With that in mind, D2 seems like a less than ideal steel for that type of knife. Just my 2 cents...
 
Forgot to ask. Are you looking for an "extreme" fighter? What are the general duties you see this knife doing?
 
D2 does not rust quickly, but it does rust or stain some. The issue is low toughness for this application. If I was going to use a D2-bladed knife for heavy duty use I would absolutely not want any serrations on the blade. Serrations just give you a place for a blade crack to start and significantly weakens a hard blade. I don't want 58-60 RC in a combat knife. I want something more like 56 (or 56-58). An ideal material would be 5160, 1080 or 1095 carbon steel (which really can rust compared to D2). Unfortunately a lot of knife manufacturers are either putting out soft bladed products with unreliable quality control and/or knives with blades that are too hard.

The Becker Knife and Tool products from Camillus are a little harder than optimum, but they are pretty stout. As long as the beefy grips don't put you off they would be a better choice than a D2 blade. For a bit more money you can't get tougher than a Swamp Rat Knife Works blade. They are made from a tough alloy and differentially hardened for added toughness.

Stainless steel always compromises toughness. 12C27 is a simple alloy and should be relatively tough. Avoid serrations if you plan on hard blade use with a stainless.
 
I believe Kabar stopped making the Next Generation with 12C27 some time ago, and switched to 440A. I personally would not have wanted the 12C27 model anyhow. To get the best performance from 12C27 requires a very elaborate heat treatment, and even with that it is still not as good as 440C.

I do own the D2 model myself, but I have not used it or tried to sharpen it. However, D2 has the reputation of being hard to sharpen.

The Kabar fighter that looks most interesting to me is a new model designed by Bob Dozier. It is made with 1095, same as the Marine Combat.
 
***THICK(tough?) BLADE ONES, HEAVY DUTY FULL TANGS***

Hi KBOG, yes as said by Kabar that 1281 is a 'extreme' one and I guess we just donno what kinda extreme is that one about? JEFF just said that that D2 can be hard (around RC60) and that kinda thing tends to crack especially when it comes to a serration one......well, I think what I'm most uncomfortable with is that tang design! NOt FULL TANG BUT FULL-LENGTH TANG(that goes suddenly so tiny back into the handle!!)...I know it is technically no problem, but how do we like it? I'm kinda worried..Basically I NEED that kinda knife you can **almost** use it like an axe, or just a solid full tang one! I got a UZI defender and I just love the way it looks and holds!
 
kbog said:
D2 is a very hard steel, but I'm not convinced (from research only) that it is a particularly tough steel. Seems to me that it would be a great steel for slicing , but not necessarily a great steel for prying or high impact activity. With that in mind, D2 seems like a less than ideal steel for that type of knife. Just my 2 cents...
Click to expand...

I posted my reply above, thnx!
 
http://www.knifeoutlet.com/catalog/Kabar_Knives/KAB1271.htm
W.T. Beck said:
I believe Kabar stopped making the Next Generation with 12C27 some time ago, and switched to 440A. I personally would not have wanted the 12C27 model anyhow. To get the best performance from 12C27 requires a very elaborate heat treatment, and even with that it is still not as good as 440C.

I do own the D2 model myself, but I have not used it or tried to sharpen it. However, D2 has the reputation of being hard to sharpen.

The Kabar fighter that looks most interesting to me is a new model designed by Bob Dozier. It is made with 1095, same as the Marine Combat.
Click to expand...

You mean that one up there? :)
 
W.T. Beck said:
I believe Kabar stopped making the Next Generation with 12C27 some time ago, and switched to 440A. I personally would not have wanted the 12C27 model anyhow. To get the best performance from 12C27 requires a very elaborate heat treatment, and even with that it is still not as good as 440C.

I do own the D2 model myself, but I have not used it or tried to sharpen it. However, D2 has the reputation of being hard to sharpen.

The Kabar fighter that looks most interesting to me is a new model designed by Bob Dozier. It is made with 1095, same as the Marine Combat.
Click to expand...

AND HOW ABOUT THAT 420HC? ON BUCKS THEY SAY IT'S 58RC AND ON AG RUSSEL THEY SAY, WELL..54

THAT'S QUITE SOME DIFFERNCE, JUST THE WAY THEY LOOK AT IT??
 
I have to agree with the recommendation for Becker Knife and Tool. Full tang and should be tough (in that price point) to beat.

I must add however that I was looking for a knife just like the kind you are currently looking for. It came down to the BK&T BK7 and the Swamp Rat Camp Tramp. I went for the Tramp and have not regreted it for a second even with the additional cost. This knife is VERY tough indeed and a fantastic chopper (though no knife will chop like an axe). It is very blade heavy which is great for chopping, but not a particularly fast moving knife for fighting. Perhaps the BK&T would be faster, though I wouldn't know.

Also, it does not have a full tang, but rather 3/4. At first I didn't like this, but when it arrived I figured out quickly that having that fantastic handle more than made up for it. Also, I thought the tang could be used to hammer, but I learned that the spine of the blade is fine for that in many cases.

Overall the tramp is a great user blade. Not really the prettiest, but this knife does it's job(s) very well. I say splurge! :)
 
flamegate said:
AND HOW ABOUT THAT 420HC? ON BUCKS THEY SAY IT'S 58RC AND ON AG RUSSEL THEY SAY, WELL..54

THAT'S QUITE SOME DIFFERNCE, JUST THE WAY THEY LOOK AT IT??
Click to expand...

It all depends on the heat treat. Buck's knives are heat treated by Paul Bos. The blades are as good as AUS6, IIRC.

Is their any reason you're looking at Kabar in general? Check out Swamp Rat's Camp Tramp for about ~$25 more than what you can get the Kabar for. Their warranty is excellent. Also take a look at the Ontario RAT-7 Bush Survival in D2. It goes around the same price as the Kabar. It has micarta handle slabs whereas the Kabar has "plastic" handles.

D2 rusts, but not if you take care of it. If you're going to use it in a humid area, I suggest you oil the blade before and after use. Good luck with your search and welcome to BFC!

www.swampratknives.com
 
Flamgate,

I just got two new Kabars today from Knife Outlet (great prices and service, as always). The Dozier designed fighter is different from the model 1271 in the link you posted. It is model 1273. I got both the 1271 and the 1273.

The difference between them is that the model 1273 has a spear point 7 inch blade with a false edge on top, while the model 1271 has an eight inch blade and is a lot like the new M-16 bayonet made by Ontario (except the Kabar is 1095 steel versus S3V for the Ontario bayonet).

I couldn't decide which one I liked best so I ordered both. After getting them I still can't say I like one better than the other. The 1273 seems to be more purely a fighter than the 1271, so you might like the 1271 better for your purposes.

As members have posted above, their are better knives for camping chores, such as the BK&T and the Swamprat line. Personally I find the Swamprats to be a bit blade-heavy, but many like that quality. The handles on the BK&T line are too slippery to suit me.

The main difference between the Kabar and the other brands is that the Kabar was designed as a combat knife, to be used for both utility and fighting. The BK&Ts and Swamprats in particular are more purely utility knives.
 
I just noticed that the top edge on the 1271 is also a false edge, but I suppose it could be sharpened, as could the top false edge on the 1273. Also, the blade of the Dozier designed 1273 has a slight recurve.

Obviously it is the blade of the 1273 and not the whole knife that was designed by Bob Dozier. The handle and guard are identical on both knives, and similar to the handles on other Kabars.

One other difference, the 1273 comes with a Kydex sheath, while the 1271 comes with a leather sheath.
 
Diamond Cut II said:
It all depends on the heat treat. Buck's knives are heat treated by Paul Bos. The blades are as good as AUS6, IIRC.

Is their any reason you're looking at Kabar in general? Check out Swamp Rat's Camp Tramp for about ~$25 more than what you can get the Kabar for. Their warranty is excellent. Also take a look at the Ontario RAT-7 Bush Survival in D2. It goes around the same price as the Kabar. It has micarta handle slabs whereas the Kabar has "plastic" handles.

D2 rusts, but not if you take care of it. If you're going to use it in a humid area, I suggest you oil the blade before and after use. Good luck with your search and welcome to BFC!

www.swampratknives.com
Click to expand...


I THANK YOUR REPLY AND WELCOME WITH PREMIUM DAMASCUS-GRADE GRATIDUDE!
 
The question you need to ask yourself is...is the D2 Kabar worth more than twice the price of the original Kabar?

In my opinion, No! D2 is good steel but so is 1095.

If you don't like the leather handle on the original Kabars then I'd suggest a Camillus Becker knife. The BK-10 is pretty good, IMO, better than the BK-7.

The Becker handles are very well designed. They won't give you blisters like the Next Generation Kabar rubber handles.

Collecter
 
collecter said:
The question you need to ask yourself is...is the D2 Kabar worth more than twice the price of the original Kabar?

In my opinion, No! D2 is good steel but so is 1095.

If you don't like the leather handle on the original Kabars then I'd suggest a Camillus Becker knife. The BK-10 is pretty good, IMO, better than the BK-7.

The Becker handles are very well designed. They won't give you blisters like the Next Generation Kabar rubber handles.

Collecter
Click to expand...

YEA AND I CHECKED OUT THAT HIGHLY RECOMMENDED BK7 AND BK10 EVERYWHERE AND I GOT THE LOWEST PRICE $44! ANY DUDES GONNA GET ONE PLEASE CHECK OUT THAT EBAY<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

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(I KNOW ITS THAT BLADE FORUM BUT..)I WONDER DUDES, DID YOU GUYS HAVE THIS KINDA PROBLEM WHEN YOU POSE LIKE YOU ARE HOLDING A M4 AND ACTUALLY YOU FEEL YOU REALLY HAVE ONE RIGHT ON YOUR SHOULDER??-----THE FANTOM RIFLE!
 
W.T. Beck said:
I just noticed that the top edge on the 1271 is also a false edge, but I suppose it could be sharpened, as could the top false edge on the 1273. Also, the blade of the Dozier designed 1273 has a slight recurve.

Obviously it is the blade of the 1273 and not the whole knife that was designed by Bob Dozier. The handle and guard are identical on both knives, and similar to the handles on other Kabars.

One other difference, the 1273 comes with a Kydex sheath, while the 1271 comes with a leather sheath.
Click to expand...

TALKING ABOUT 1095, I MESSED AROUND SOME BRITISH SALES WITH ONTARIO KNVIVES, AND SAID AS "MADE WITH 1095 SURGICAL GRADE STEEL"...I PERSONALLY THINK 'SURGICAL GRADE' IS A PRETTY BIG WORD AND WE NEVER EXPECT THE PENTAGON CHEERING FOR A 'SURGICAL GRADE FOR EVERY SERVICEMAN', AND...WELL, COULD THERE JUST BE A 1095 SURGICAL GRADE? OR, WHAT IS THAT SURGICAL GRADE ANYWAYS?---"HEY DOC, CAN WE HAVE A SURGICAL GRADE?" "YOU GOT IT!" :confused:

OR.. I SAW THOSE LITTLE SURGIs ONCE AND MANY TIMES...GUESS THEY ARE, OR SHOULD BE, BASICALLY 'STAINLESS' UNLESS WE SAW THIS KINDA STUFFS IN A PARAMEDEIC SOAP: "JANNY, HAND ME THAT SURGI, THIS ONE'S JUST GOT THE STAIN..."------ ;)

SHOULD THEY SEE THE TRUTH BEFORE THEY ACCIDENTLY CHECK OUT AG RUSSEL'S STEEL GUIDE:

1095, NON-STAINLESS STEEL::NOT IN MY STOMACH.
 
Hi Dudes I Saw A Extrema Ratio Fixed Blade On Eaby In Box With Everything Except A Camera, Anyone Saw This Post Might Wanna Check That Out. :)

Flame
 
I think the word "surgical" is usually applied to the lowest grades of stainless steel, like 420, to make it sound like better stuff than it really is. "Surgical grade" sounds better than "lowest grade stainless, which keeps our production costs down".
 
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