D2 Steel Questions

G

gobblegobble

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Jan 4, 2013
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I don't know a great deal about knife steel, and I am particularly confused about D2. On another forum (BCUSA), the following information was posted:

"D2 is a tool steel that is just outside of the threshold of being a carbon steel so it is sort of neither carbon nor stainless really it has more resistance to rust than 1095 but less than 410. Generally it is not used with large blades as it can chip out in aplications like a machete but it is considered a good choice for small to medium sized blades and will take abuse as well as hold an edge."

That is helpful information for me, but I still have a few questions: How would D2 compare to, say, 440C in terms of its ability to resist chipping? Is it correct to say that 440C would be more brittle than D2, which would in turn be more brittle than 1095?

I am asking because I'm on the never-ending search for the "perfect" backpacking knife. I'm nervous about 1095 for a multiday trip, since it can't necessarily be dried off, oiled, and put away at the end of the day while on the trail. On the other hand, I do a fair bit of batoning, and I want to make VERY sure that my knife steel is up to the challenge and that I won't have to fear chipping. In particular, I already have the BK-11 and the Eskabar in 1095, and am intrigued by the BK-24 (i.e., the Eskabar in D2 steel), but I'm not sure if it would hold up to long-term, hard batoning. I know that Moose has already done some testing of the BK-24, and it seemed to do just fine, but I'm still trying to gather more information. As an alternative, Esee is of course coming out with stainless (440C) versions of the Izula and the 4 this year. I'm sure they'll be great, but I like the intermediate size of the Eskabar/BK-24.

Any help you all can provide would be greatly appreciated!
 
I wouldn't worry too much about it. Take a look at this: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/995500-BK24-Beatdown-Part-1?highlight=BK24

Honestly, if it's so wet that you can't wipe your blade off to mostly dry, you're probably in a pretty bad situation and a rusting blade is the least of your worries. You could also get a BK14 and not strip it. The coating will keep the blade for rusting. I've yet to have trouble will my stripped 14 rusting and I live in a humid climate and don't bother oiling it. They won't just fall apart overnight, it would take years of abuse to make it so bad you couldn't fix it back up.
 
In all honesty, your worrying about something that is useless to worry about. The first thing I do is strip my blades, and it happens as soon as I get them. I take numerous multi-day trips a year, and really abuse my knives. I hardly ever oil them, and wiping them off only happens on occasion. I've found, that 1095 can handle being wet far better than people think. Here are some pics of my heavy users, and I promise you, they have seen minimal maintenance.
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I don't have any D2 blades to speak of, so I can't really comment on the D2, but for the regular ones, I have had my 16 stripped for quite awhile now and after the initial patina in a PCB etchant solution I have never even oiled the thing. No issues. Over time, with use, they all develop a patina which has the benefit of protecting the steel underneath from really debilitating rust or pitting. Not that it can't happen, but a regularly used knife will not experience any issues with it provided you don't store it in a bucket of salt water every night.
 
I am not calling out the OP, but this something that always frustrates me... It seems anytime someone mentions how great a 1095CV blade is they always throw in the caveat, "OH BUT KEEP IT OILED OR ITLLL RUST ALL UP ON YOU!!!!!" Then that point is the only thing remembered. Yes carbon steel can rust... so can many other steels... Some just easier that others. Yes you need to throw some oil on there every now and again, but no rocket science required.

FACT: If you are actually using your blades and not just chunking them in the ocean, you are probably not going to have rust issues.
FACT: If rust develops typically it can be easily cleaned off WITHOUT damaging the blade.
FACT: Your blade is not going to shrivel up and crumble away.

This is a carbon steel machete that I left out in the elements for about 2.5 years, and here is all the damage. This was 2.5 years of just sitting out in the sun, snow, rain, wind, and hail. The edge did not pit or rust out. Sure there is some rust there, but it was mainly on the surface.


Here is the same machete after a cleanup and strip and wrap.


Completely serviceable. So all I am saying is... Steel rusting is something to consider... but not something to obsess about.
 
I greatly appreciate all the responses!
It has indeed occurred to me that I might be obsessing about something that wasn't really a problem, but then I'm pretty good at that :)
Anyhow, thanks again!
 
Iwouldhurtafly +1!
I almost always consider rust to be a cosmetic issue & one that gets way too much attention. I've never had a knife or any other hand tool rust beyond repair. I've used farm tools that looked like they were left over from the last apocalypse. But with a little elbow grease they always came back to get the job done.

If you want a knife that will look the same after years of use, don't get carbon steel. I just want a knife that I know won't fail when I use it use it the way I want.
 
Thank you, I think I might have gone on a rant there... but really...... It is an overblown issue.

Sometimes I think people forget to just have fun and cut stuff. :D
 
if you look cross-eyed at D2, it chips out, so be careful :D

but really, for a knife that size, if you keep tasks within reason, and don't baton through sandy logs or nails, it should be fine.

so, yet, get your D2. enjoy it. carry some 1095 too. use it. enjoy it. maybe carry a silicone rag to wipe with, or just deal with it after the trip.
 
Choosing a knife based on steel type hasn't really been my #1 deciding factor in a knife purchase ever. Mostly because I know little on the the subject, ha! I don't abuse my gear. If it's climbing, scuba, kiting, skydiving, shooting, blades, etc. I don't abuse it, but I do use my equipment hard. I've noticed in my current area (south FL) I've been paying more attention and seeking out more info about different types of steel. I love a good carbon steel and how it ages and develops a patina. Where I live doesn't like carbon steels so much without constant care. Since I've had my BK24 I've been carrying and using it constantly and it has proven to be fairly easy as far as constant care goes. I haven't oiled it at all, only wiped it off then sheathed it. I recently convexed the edge and have had no problems with edge retention. I like D2 so far, for me.
 
I once found a carbon steel knife that had been lost under a juniper bush long enough that the stacked leather washer handle had completely rotted away and there were some pits in the blade 1/4" in diameter. I hit it with a wire brush and spent an evening restoring the edge -- ugly as sin, but it still cuts like a banshee.
I have several other 1095, O1, and 1084 knives and while they might develop some surface "rust" (bloom) over the course of a camping trip -- IF I'm in high temps and high humidity or they get left out overnight for the dew to fall on -- a quick wipe on my pants leg or with a scotchbrite pad is all it takes to clean them up. no lasting damage.

that said, I love D2 -- have not had issues with chipping, holds an edge well, and is not a nightmare to sharpen is you have a diamond hone. (which I have been using on all my knives since I discovered the EZ-Lap 1x6 fine "stone" back in '88 at a gun show)
 
I am in a line of work that spends quite a bit of time in austere environments. I use mainly 1095 steels on knives that I carry (mostly Beckers). I also make my own out of 1095 and some 1080 on some of the thicker blades ( 0.25"). Travelling around the world and in any and every condition you could imagine, the only time I ever have any "rust issues" is when I prep food and neglect to clean my blade afterwards. Only then do I develop anything that needs attention, and very little at that. Surface rust that pretty much wipes off. I'm a big fan of 1095 and the like. My only experience with D2 was with an expensive Benchmade folder made out of D2. As you can imagine, I demand a lot out of my blades but I know the limitations of them. I had about 1/4" of the end chip off with surprisingly little pressure. After using carbon steels for years and years I was disappointed at it's performance. Not saying that it's a bad steel at all, just ain't for me. Sorry about getting so long winded. Just still mad about that missing 1/4" even after a few years.
 
If you want to try a blade in D2 give it a shot....worst case you buy it, don't like it and sell it to get most of your money back. In my experience I would not spend the extra cash for a d2 blade. I took my bk2 on a skiddo trip earlier this year and it rained the first day and I mean big ass rain to the point we didn't think day two would be worth going and actually we had to truck the skidoo's 40 miles away to a higher elevation to get some decent snow...but that's a different story. As I was saying it rained and my bk2 was sitting in my pack soaked from 12 hours on day 1. Several times that day we stopped to make a fire and I used my bk2 and put it back int he sheath with only a gentle wipe off as I had nothing dry to do it with. When we got home later that night I took my wet clothes off and hung them up to dry and laid my wet pack(knife still inside) on the floor until the next morning. Didn't use the blade at all that day and kinda forgot about it when I went home for a couple of days and when I opened the pack there was very little evidence of rust. 2 little spots that came off very easliy. Long story short 1095 is a very good steel that can accept a lot of user error (or in my case, laziness!) I wouldn't shell out the extra cash for a d2 blade based on rust resistance alone, the blade would really have to strike a cord with me.

Anyways, best of luck with your decision and remember to enjoy em.

Cory
 
The only time I ever had issues with rust (Carbon-V) was in the Navy living on the coast. Take it out of the sheath and it would rust in the air. I never have rust issues in Ohio.
 
I have both and will say pretty much everything you read on forums is theory. I haven't oiled my Becker in over a year and there is no rust on it. Another carbon blade went 4 years with no rust. I do wipe them off when out and when I wash them I use very hot water to rinse to help dry the metal. If you are around salt water then take a little cooking oil or something to wipe on the blade until you get it home. I'm not sure that is even needed for sure. :)

D2 got a bad wrap before D2 was perfected. Most manufactures heat treated it a little to hard and if you beat on it or used it for a pry bar you could have issues. I've beat on my D@ and haven't had issues yet. :)

If you want to see what kind of abuse D2 takes go to the BenchMade forum and look under the Lab section. They beat the heck out of S30V and D2 blades, folders as well as fixed blades. They started using wood mallets to baton with but ate up too many and switched to rubber and plastic hammers to beat the blade through treated 4x4 lumber. I know for sure BenchMade and ESEE will replace your knife even if you're beating on it when it breaks. I'm guessing from what I've read KaBar will too, but that's not what the warranty paperwork tells you.

If I wanted a knife to beat on my first choice would be a carbon Becker or ESEE. I would not worry about rust at all. If I wanted stainless I jump up to S30V for no worries, even though I've not had issues with D2. Sometimes you read stuff and just can't get it out of your head no matter what experience tells you. :)
 
zpstl321 said:
also, D2 is carbon steel. It's 1% under the required chromium mix to qualify for Stainless.
Click to expand...
well, you're half right.
D2 does not have enough Chromium in it to qualify as a stainless steel.
However, it's not a 10xx series steel, so it's not considered a "carbon steel" either -- it's an alloy tool steel.
 
I know grand poobah in this forum who owns the D2 BK and a Dozier D2 and the BKT compares very well to the one by Dr D2,Thats saying a lot about the Kabar/BKT
 
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