D2 vs 154cm

B

BryanH

Joined
Nov 25, 2001
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Can someone explain some of the pros and cons about these steels? I'm trying to figure out which one I want in a Camillus EDC, if I don't get Talonite, which I've been advised against. I'm just wondering differences in edge retention, sharpenability, corrosion resistance, stuff like that.

And, as always, thank you!!!

BryanH
 
Why were you advised against Talonite? Just wondering, as it has about the best edge retention qualities you'll find. Absolutely will never, ever corrode either. The downside would be that you wouldn't want to chop or pry with it, as it may chip quite easily. Otherwise, it's an incredible material for cutting and slicing.

As for D2 and 154CM, both are great for everday use, but also have their trade-offs. Things could get a whole lot more complicated really fast if we bring the subject of heat treating into this, but for the Camillus EDC, we'll assume that all is equal. (I'm sure someone will bring it up though- heat treating can make a HUGE difference in any steel's performance- but it sounds like you're after the basics more or less)

First off, D2 is a carbon steel. 154-CM is a stainless. 154-CM will be more stain and corrosion resistant, whereas D2 will have a tendency to corrode with lack of proper care. Wipe the D2 down with a Tuf-Cloth or similar every now and again, and you'll be fine. Unless you plan to keep the knife wet a whole lot, you'll probably never notice the difference.

154-CM will tend to have a lower RC (Rockwell hardness) number than D2, could be like 58-59 for the 154, and 60-61 for the D2. That's a generalization, though. That means that the D2 will be slightly harder, yielding better edge retention, but with that comes a greater chance for chipping. Generic rule of thumb? The higher the RC number, the better the edge retention, and the higher tendency to chip. The lower the RC number the lower edge retention, but lower tendency to chip.

The performance of D2, like many carbon steels, is highly dependant upon it's manufacturing process. I like it alot, but as it's harder than 154-CM, it takes more effort to sharpen yet needs it less frequently. You might prefer one over the other based on your usage and sharpening habits. Both would make excellent choices, but 154-CM would probably the easier of the two for you to put into use as a true EDC. Virtually maintenance free, and will sharpen up nicely while still returning a very respectable edge life.

You'll find both widely used in both customs and higher end production knives, so it's not like you can really make a bad decision here anyways. I'd personally recommend D2, as there's just something about it that appeals to me. It seems more raw and less processed than 154-CM (although I can't base that in metallurguical fact) and as someone here once posted, it does seem "alive". Takes a great edge as well, but can be frustratingly difficult to sharpen for someone who has really never done much sharpening before.

Well, I'm sure THAT response didn't help you out much, did it? What a rambling mess- sorry, I'm getting sleepy. :D

Buy them both, and get the Talonite model while you're at it.

Firebat
 
Dude ~ I have a coupla of skinners made by Bob Dozier in D-2. These excellent knives are hardy and requires very little maintenance. But due to the warm and humid environment here in the jungles of Malaysia, the D-2 tends to collect surface rust and stains easily. Plenty of care had to be observed... ;) The 154CM on the other hand, is an excellent working steel! I used to own a Camillus Arclite neck knife.. No problems at all handling this one in and out of water.. :D
The 154CM blade is easy to maintain in the field.. :D

Sam
 
I have to disagree with the above posters; D-2 is very nearly stainless, while 154-CM is almost not stainless (based on the technical definition of "stainless" as the amount of chromium in the blade). I have D-2 blades that won't rust at all (Blackwood LiteWave, DDR Madd Maxx), and 154-CM blades that rust if you looked at them funny (Camillus EDC, Microtech Socom Elite). I think this has a lot to do with surface finish, as the Doziers I've had have tended to rust a little, and they are more roughly finished.

D-2 is also probably less prone to chip than 154-CM, even at a slightly higher hardness. It can be hardened higher because it is tougher; they are not two steels equal in toughness at the same RC. By the same token, at the same RC D-2 would be tougher.

I personally find D-2 to be easier to sharpen than 154-CM, based on a pretty good sized sample. I also feel it takes a sharper edge.

Regarding Talonite, I haven't heard that it chips out, rather that the softer (relative to steel) matrix in which the carbides are embedded tends to roll. This is the opposite behavior of chipping. No first-hand experience with the stuff though.

I would go for the D-2 in a heartbeat. The EDC is a great design (I have one in 154-CM I bought before the D-2 ones were out), and D-2 is my favorite steel at the moment (well, maybe after 3-V). On the other hand, in a small pocket-knife, I see no reason not to try out Talonite, except cost. If going with an exotic blade material floats your boat, give it a shot.
 
I'd definitely do the talonite, personally. It tends to roll on tough cuts, instead of chipping. You just strop to roll the edge back into alignment. It will not rust. Talk about cake walk.

But if it came to D2 or 154CM, I'd be inclined toward the D2. It's just a lot tougher; and if heat-treated properly, pretty stainless and chip resistant. I'd call it an overall upgrade from 154CM, except that it's harder to sharpen.

In the end, if you plan to use the knife often, my strongest consideration would be maintenance. Talonite just needs to be stropped, so it's easiest. 154CM is good if you have decent sharpening skills. The D2 is awesome if you have very good sharpening skills.

The EDC’s blade shape cuts so well that all of the various blade material options will cut well enough to make anybody happy. The talonite will be exceptional though, because of its peculiar nature. The stuff just won’t quit!!!
 
I have the BM Axis AFCK with D-2 steel and the thing really takes a good edge. It cuts really well also. I really like it and I don't really find it any more difficult to sharpen than the BM that I have with 154CM. So I would think that you should get the D-2 because it is some pretty good stuff, I think ;) .
 
Well now. I have both the 154cm, and the D2 EDC and I disagree with almost all the posts so far. The D2 holds its edge much better, and is not noticably harder to sharpen. Corrosion? haven't noticed a problem with either one. I think it is a no brainer go D2.
 
I've been juggling the idea of getting a couple of Newt Livesay's fixed blades made for me in either D2 or 154cm for a few months now (they will be IWB carry blades)...it's settled, I'll go with D2.

Thanks for the info!

Lester S.
 
Originally posted by Firebat
Why were you advised against Talonite? Just wondering, as it has about the best edge retention qualities you'll find. Absolutely will never, ever corrode either. The downside would be that you wouldn't want to chop or pry with it, as it may chip quite easily. Otherwise, it's an incredible material for cutting and slicing.

Firebat
Click to expand...

I was advised against Talonite because the person said that the blade's to small to warrant the price, and that if I'm not going to have the blade wet, or around a wet environment, there's no need for it, basically.

BryanH
 
I've had blades of ATS-34 (very similar to 154-CM) and D2
The ATS-34 (Benchmade) never got sharp enough for my liking, no matter what I did. Bob Dozier's D2, on the other hand, is scalpel sharp. Plus, it's relatively easy for me to keep sharp on the Spyderco Sharpmaker. But perhaps that's because of the high thin grind he uses.
I'd recommend D2.
But I'd really like to see a comparison of D2 and VG-10. Now that would be a great comparison. Any thoughts?
Lenny
 
BryanH – I’m not quite sure that the advice you received was all that accurate. I can’t imagine why the size of the EDC would make Talonite an inappropriate choice. As a matter of fact, and somebody correct me if I’m wrong, Talonite is actually a better choice for small knives than big survival choppers or axes.

It’s true that the biggest allure of Talonite is its non-rusting nature, but there are other factors to take into consideration. Talonite has a strange lubricity about it, allowing the blade to glide through material without an excessive amount of friction. Talonite is also very easy to maintain. All you normally do is simply strop the edge. Talonite even a unique cutting power. The carbides just keep on cutting, long after the edge has begun to dull. It’s just great stuff.
 
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