D3V anybody ?

S

sfrigon1

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Oct 2, 2016
Messages
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Well I'm still waiting patiently for my 4.1 and I am very excited about this new heat treat . Does anyone know if it's exactly the same as the field knife ? If so how much better is it than survive's 3v ? I'm very curious any info would be great
 
I can't wait to compare my FK to my new 4.1 in D3V. Have the FK and just waiting like everyone else for the new 4.1
 
I first heard Ellie mention the 120 days for 2nds fairly recently, probably in the last month.
It was still listed as 90 days for 2nds when I placed my last order in December, and if you look at the production schedule page (the page is in the same location but the links have changed) it still lists 90 days for 2nds.
Bottom line if you ordered a 1st they are not giving any delivery time frame estimates, for which I applaud them since they can't seem to hold to a delivery date.
 
The d3V heat treat protocol was a joint effort between Carothers, Seifert and Keffeler. It's documented elsewhere. I understand that the HT takes into account even variations in the steel composition from batch to batch and other variables that are geometry specific. As Nathan put it "it is not a one size fits all", I think. Then there are differences in finish - tumbled (CPK FK) versus peened (GSO 4.1) that MAY affect things. They are not *EXACTLY* the same... but really, we are talking about things that us mere mortals would never be able to discern.
 
TRfromMT said:
The d3V heat treat protocol was a joint effort between Carothers, Seifert and Keffeler. It's documented elsewhere. I understand that the HT takes into account even variations in the steel composition from batch to batch and other variables that are geometry specific. As Nathan put it "it is not a one size fits all", I think. Then there are differences in finish - tumbled (CPK FK) versus peened (GSO 4.1) that MAY affect things. They are not *EXACTLY* the same... but really, we are talking about things that us mere mortals would never be able to discern.
Click to expand...

The person who initially developed the idea of low temperature temper 3V was Dr. Roman Landes... funny how he is never mentioned
 
Revolverrodger said:
The person who initially developed the idea of low temperature temper 3V was Dr. Roman Landes... funny how he is never mentioned
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The idea of applying low temper tweaks to steels with a SHH is older than 3V. Cliff Stamp sent me in that direction 15 years ago. Keffeler, Landes and I all approached a low temp tweak to 3V separately and without knowledge of the others. My tweak was based on work I did on D2 and applied to 3V. I'm mentioning this here because I don't want folks to get the wrong idea that "it's funny that someone isn't being mentioned". I mean no disrespect to the guy and I have a lot of respect for his contributions, but he isn't being mentioned in this context because this isn't his work.
 
Delta 3V is the name of the proprietary HT 3V belong to only Nathan.

What PHT use is low tempering protocol which is pretty close but Brad wouldn't call it D3V.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
The idea of applying low temper tweaks to steels with a SHH is older than 3V. Cliff Stamp sent me in that direction 15 years ago. Keffeler, Landes and I all approached a low temp tweak to 3V separately and without knowledge of the others. My tweak was based on work I did on D2 and applied to 3V. I'm mentioning this here because I don't want folks to get the wrong idea that "it's funny that someone isn't being mentioned". I mean no disrespect to the guy and I have a lot of respect for his contributions, but he isn't being mentioned in this context because this isn't his work.
Click to expand...

Well he did write a thesis and publish a book on heat treat where he talks about avoiding secondary hardening in high alloy steels by using a lower temperature protocol... and this was a long time ago. Cliff Stamp mentions that he had discussions on this topic with Dr. Landes.

I just want to put things in perspective. D3V is not magic. It's science that has been known for at least a decade. Like everything it has pro and cons.

I try to stick with the science to avoid hype
:D
 
There is no mystery involving high vs low temperature tempering. The secondary hardening was developed originally for precision dies that would offer a very stable and hard structure . I have been suggesting a low temperature temper for knives for a long time . But then I'm only a weird metallurgist !
 
Secondary hardening is not completely bad either. It makes for very wear resistant knives.
Low temperature temper can also have drawbacks such as more chance to mess up the temper when sharpening or putting the blade near flame (bushcraft)

Maybe there are other drawbacks I am not aware of?
 
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