Damascas Steel - For Show or Use?

B

BKH

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Nov 24, 2012
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Title says it all. I'm going to be using it either way, but is it intended for use, or just for display?
 
Show.

It is just blending of different steel to make a contrast of color/texture.

True Damascus art is lost through time and war.

Today, it just looks cool and offers practically zero performance.

Back in the day, Damascus was highly guarded knowledge as swords were known to bend easily but retain very hard edges.

I'm about to order a Damascus sujihiki and the Damascus is purely for looks.
 
Well made Damascus will preform with the best of steels, no better, no worse. It is showy, but, so are many of the scales and blocks we use on mono steels, . Just because a damascus knife is a thing of beauty doesn't mean it isn't very usable.
 
Damascus made from "Good" steel is very useable. I will go out on a limb and say that most Damascus mixes contain varying amounts of carbon and other elements, but if heat treated correctly, due to a certain amount of carbon migration between the mix, they will perform very well.

I may be shot down by the know-all-do-all Sheriff, but I have had good luck with not only the few damascus billets I have attempted, but also with billets made from known and respected damascus makers.

The key is a good mix and spot-on heat treat.

Just my $.02 .............. Robert
 
Damascus from good steel, heat treated properly will perform like good mono steel heat treated properly.

Damascus from dubious steel or not heat treated properly will perform like dubious mono steel or steel not heat treated properly.
 
It's true, Damascus can give a very fine using knife as well as one that will look terrific to some of us. Some of the stainless Damascus billets made are very much suited for knives to be used. Frank
 
Quality damascus properly heat treated will hold an edge as well as quality carbon steel well heat treated. Either of poor quality or poor heat treat will not hold a edge. Simple as that.

Mild steel or pure nickel mixed damascus may not preform as well. Damascus mixed with 2 steels that have differnt heat treat needs may suffer.

Some of the stainless mixes are excellent as is the more traditional 1095/15n20 types.
 
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I am in complete agreement with the comments of the knifemakers who have posted before me in the thread. Not all damascus is created equally. The important thing to remember is good steel and heat treat will produce excellent knives. I speak from a point of experience with damascus since I have not only owned many quality damascus blades, but have also had the great pleasure to have made a great deal of it myself.
 
In response to post #3 -

There are several popular misconceptions in this post.
Yes, modern "damascus" is just laminated and patterned steels of different types. Most of the good quality damascus is made from two steels that etch differently, but both are good blade steels in their own right. Some makers use a low carbon or nickel layer to get a very high contrast, but these layers do not cut as well as the harder high carbon layers. By choosing the right steels to layer, the end product can be a very good blade steel.

True Damascus, if you mean the original damascus from the 3rd century BC to the mid 1300's, was wootz. The procedure is not lost or guarded. It was made primarily in India, but also in Russia. It is still made by many people today. The original source material and smelting places are long gone, but the understanding of the steel is well known. This steel was a softer steel with hard carbide bands in it. It made a blade that was much less brittle than a high carbon blade, and had a very aggressive edge due to the layered carbides.

The "Damascus" that is popular in modern knives is actually" Pattern Welded Steel", and is similar to what the Vikings made. It is a layering of different steels to either save costly high carbon steel ( which was very rare at one time) and to gain an attractive pattern.

Damascus Kitchen knives are usually suminagashi, which is basically a san-mai of a decorative laminated steel on a good cutlery steel core. The preferred laminated/damascus sides are nickel and stainless, which has no cutting ability, but makes an attractive side pattern. Suminagashi made with core steels like VG-10 is popular, but the blades made with high carbon Yasuki core steels are far better.

Many of the pattern welded, or damascus blades made by smiths today are excellent cutters, and have fully functional blades. They are better for cutting than slicing because the layers create a micro serrated edge.

Final note - The name Damascus does not come from the steel being made there or sold there. It comes from the Europeans in the 13-15th century referring to the pattern as "damascene", which means having a flowing shimmer to the pattern. The word damascene also means "From Damascus", thus causing later people to think the steel and swords actually came from there
 
That's true - it may not.
In the words of my closest knife making friend, Jerry Rados:

"Jesus Christ, Himself, can send a bar of steel down from Heaven.
It will only be as good as the heat treatment it gets on Earth."

Foot Patrol said:
I was lead to believe that Damascus blades may not hold an edge.
Click to expand...

Personally, I use some 3/8" X 1 3/4" 1095 that was from an old batch of steel Aldo was selling nearly 7-8 years ago.
I have access to a decent supply of it.
I use "15N20" from Ray Kirk, which is a very specific melt of 1075 with 3% nickel.
It is the best performing steel from my shop.
 
Made a 9" oal drop point hunter (1084/15n20 twist patterned) for a young lady in AK. She and her husband pack into the way back for multi week long horseback hunting trips each year. I made this knife for her some 6 to 7 years ago, with a sheath to attach to her saddle. They sent it back here a couple months ago to have me make an additional sheath so she could also carry the knife on her belt. The pattern was still very visible to answer another recent thread and the blade did not need to be re etched at all. You could tell the knife had been used and used hard but not abused. What amazed me was what the husband told me the edge had done before he had just recently touched it up for her for the first time. She had skinned and dressed a moose, 2 bears, and half a caribou. He said the only reason that she didn't get through the whole caribou was he had half of it done when she got there. This was in addition to the day to day uses and camp chores. Couldn't ask for more.
 
Depands on who made it . In Bulgaria we have several blacksmits who make that kind of steel and I have seen pictures and videos of a knife of one particular blacksmith who was "carving" a nail and then shaves hand hair . If this is not an edge for use - I don't know what is .
 
Foot Patrol said:
I was lead to believe that Damascus blades may not hold an edge.
Click to expand...

There is a flood of India or Pakistan sourced Damascus selling cheap on Ebay.
There are many Damascus kit blade blanks that may be made from the same source.
There are many cheap 440a stainless blades being sold with acid etching made to imitate Damascus patterning.

I have no doubt that THOSE don't hold an edge.
 
It's kind of amusing that you'll never see a blade for sale with a sales pitch like, "This blade is made of the finest cutlery steel, 15n20, which is capable of slicing up several large Alaskan mammals between sharpenings!!"
Mix it with a contrasting steel and it becomes a SuperGood Cutting Steel!
It must just be current fashion.
All of our most-used kitchen knives are of 15n20 and my wife won't use anything else, she absolutely loves em, and she cooks daily.
Come to think of it, my EDC "use it for everything" slipjoint is 15n20, too.
 
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