Damascus Blade Question

J

JAMerolle

Joined
Jan 14, 2012
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233
I understand that Damascus steel is only as good (but not better) then the steels you used and the quality of the welding job of these combined steels. My question is, when someone buys a Damascus bar or a knife how does one determine the quality of the welding/forged steel. I was told Damascus is only as good as its weakest link in the welding. So how does one determine imperfections in welding the job? I just purchased a Damascus blade thinking I was getting the combinded quality of 1095 and 15N20 for a better blade (toughness) . Now I am starting to realize Damascus does not guarantee better quality then mono steel and if you got a poor welding job of the two steels it will be worse then any mono steel. Thus would it be fair to say that Damascus steel is not greater then its parts? In my case that would be 1095 and 15N20.

Any help from would be greatly appreciated.
 
If the blade is for show only there isn't a problem; if it's for use the reputation on the smith will helkp tell you how good it is. Frank
 
I would also like to use it for yard work , and I dont know the Smith because I purchased over seas , so how can I decern its integrity
 
if you got a blade overseas, there are a lot of countries that could be considered "overseas", no offense to Hammerfall, but if the knife was made in China, India, Pakistan, or any of the other countries known for cheap knock-off manufacturing, chances are pretty good that it is crap. People overseas have figured out that Americans will pay stupid money for anything claiming to have been made from 1095/15n20, O1/L6, etc. and there are a lot of blades out there from China and Pakistan claiming to be those or other well known steel combinations that are actually anything but.

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where did you purchase it? and is the blade stamped with anything? it will likely cost you more than it is worth to test it

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Pakistan , the only reason why is because no American that I could find was willing build it to my size requirments. So I found a custom knife maker on Ebay that was willing to build my drawing (full tang, size and thickness requirements). Here is a link to some of his other work.

The knife he built me is

21 inches overall
7 inche handle
.55 inch thickness full tang
4 inch blade width at bigest point
handle 1.75 inch width


http://myworld.ebay.com/ultimatewarriorx&ssPageName=STRK:MEFSX:SELLERID&_trksid=p3984.m1543.l2533
 
you can get it rockwell tested, if the RC hardness is as claimed (he claims on the knife in your link that he has an RC of 58-60) then it might be a reasonable blade. I would be very surprised if RC testing in 5 spots produces an average RC anywhere close to that

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He told me the knife he made me was 56 Hardness, can you give me more instructions on where I can get the hardness tested. I also want the steel tested for 1095 and 15n20. Furthermore, how can I test for imperfections in the welding of the 1095 and 15n20? I would also like to send you some pictures if you don’t mind to get your feedback. I did not pay a crazy price for the knife so I am not too worried, I just don’t want it breaking in heavy use. (Copping trees limbs and stuff) . Thank you for your help and feedback its been great getting some help
 
JAMerolle,
If there is a problem with weld integrity, it sometimes can be seen, cold shuts are the most common problem in poor welding. These will be black(even darker than the dark part of the damascus) and may go deeper than the surrounding etching. Given what you have described, I doubt your blade will break during hard use, it is more likely to bend, either the whole blade, or at the edge.
It will be difficult to get a sample tested of mixed metals. It can be done, but the results will most likely show the combination, and not the indivdual steels.
Rockwell testing can be done, but the area of the blade needs to be cleaned down to bare clean steel.
I am sorry to be the bearer of this news, but you did ask.
As for the willingness of american makers to make the blade you asked for, all I can say is that I could have made such a blade, I am an american maker and I don't recall hearing from you.
I will say that blade from me would have been close to $1500

From the link you posted for his other work the damascus looks good, I can't see any flaws at all, and the workmanship looks ok, but the prices he is asking would not even cover the raw steel cost(the 1095 and 15n20) to make the damascus with.
Del
 
delbert ealy said:
he blade needs to be cleaned down to bare clean steel.
I am sorry to be the bearer of this news, but you did ask.
As for the willingness of american makers to make the blade you asked for, all I can say is that I could have made such a blade, I am an american maker and I don't recall hearing from you.
I will say that blade from me would have been close to $1500

From the link you posted for his other work the damascus looks good, I can't see any flaws at all, and the workmanship looks ok, but the prices he is asking would not even cover the raw steel cost(the 1095 and 15n20) to make the damascus with.
Del
Click to expand...

Del,
I was typing a response similar to the last part of yours but it didn't make as much sense as how you put it. I looked at the links and unless they love loosing money in Pakistan that isnt 1095/15n20!
 
you need an ultrasonic flaw detector to find the imperfection welding.

for your own safty, do not try to put your knife or sword in any kind of hard use. i have been in many of these factory and saw it myself. i knew that some of the low level productions were not even tempered to save time and money. if your sword is one of them, it will very likely break upon heavy impact.

it supprised me that some of the damascus welding is acctrully done pretty well. in northern china, they use explosion welding to product sheets with 100~300 layers. after that, the sheets will be going through hot roll over 1250 °C to make sure its tightly welded. then it goes to those small factories in south to further make into different pattern. some 440c type stainless damascus can be also explosion welded.
 
I think 1095 and 15n20 in Pakistan comes a little cheaper , I thinking the suply and demands is very differnt then what American Smith have to deal with. I could be wrong (I am a beginner at this) but I spend a lot of time studying and this is what comes to mind. This is why I want to run some test.
 
If you paid around what his other knives are sellin for and you got a cool design it isn't a total loss.
 
Hammerfall,
You know, as a serious maker of laminates I have looked into expolsion welding. I would love to do some of that for some of the more difficult combinations. I have done stainless damascus, but not yet with 440c(its on my list of things to do when I get free time).
Del
 
EXPLOSIVES DAMASCUS KNIFE MAKING

Don't get any better than that. Would make a great WIP

Only need a sexy lady to light the fuse to make it perfect
 
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