Damascus blades: source, type & hardness used by Lion Steel?

T

Travelller

Joined
Jun 6, 2010
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Ciao a tutti!

I've noted elsewhere in the sub-forum that I am now in possession of a very nice Raindrop Damascus SR-1 :thumbup:


click-the-pics for hi-res goodness


Because these damascus SR-1s are still in limited circulation* little is known about the damascus in use. From what I've seen so far, Lion Steel has at least two patterns, Iguana and Raindrop. Many Damsacus designers provide the Raindrop style (Devin Thomas, for example) but AFAIK the Iguana is strictly Chad Nichols. I'll also venture that if Lion Steel is working with Chad on the Iguana chances are they do most of their damascus business with him.

My guess is that we are talking stainless, too, as this damascus' rough texture is noticeable to the touch. High-carbon damascus is usually covered with a protection layer, which also makes the texture smoother to the touch.

Last but certainly not least, I think the final hardness is based on how you (Lion Steel) processes the damascus, so would you be so kind as to note / estimate the hardness of your damascus blades, thanks!

*But I have a funny feeling that the Blade Show will soon change this if the SHOT show didn't already ;)
 
Considering I scoured the 'net the other day for Damascus samples and didn't find the Knifeart ones, they must have just been posted. This also means they sold instantly... :eek: :cool:

I think Gianni won't mind if I note that you can still get one at my local Viennese dealer, Vienna cutlery as well as one that I spotted on the other side of the world, Down Under at Cutting Edge Knives.

I know nothing about the latter, but Amel of Vienna Cutlery is top notch and very dependable / trustworthy. I have met him in person and I like him as as person as well as a fellow "knife nut" :D :thumbup:
 
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[/but AFAIK the Iguana is strictly Chad Nichols. I'll also venture that if Lion Steel is working with Chad on the Iguana chances are they do most of their damascus business with him.

QUOTE]

First let me say that Iguana is not strictly Chad Nichols. Actually it is not Chad's at all. What Iguana is - is Chad Nichols copying Devin Thomas' Reptillian. Devin has been making that pattern before Chad even thought about making damacus. Go to Devin's website and check it out.

If you look closely at Chad's work you'll notice that his mosaic looks strikingly similar to Chris Marks' patterns. If you look at his other damascus you'll notice that it looks like either Mike Norris or Devin Thomas. All this guy does is copy other peoples patterns and he changes the name and pretends that it is his design. Don't believe me- then go to all of their sites and compare. At least if he is going to copy the patterns then at least give credit to the guy who designed it first. Instead of calling it Iguana, call it what it is - Reptilian. Compare also Chad's 'Constitution' pattern to Mike Norris' Hornets nest pattern. Chad's so called 'Ladder.com' is nothing more than a cheap imitation of Devin Thomas' 'Dot matrix' pattern.

When people make a Bob Loveless style knife they say " This is a Bob Loveless stlye knife made by so and so." e.g. Steve Johnson They don't copy a Bob Loveless and say "Hey - look what I designed!"

This guy plagiarizes other peoples stuff. Still don't believe me? Word on the street is that now he is copying the patented 'Timascus' - and true to Chad Nichols style - he has changed the name to 'Titanium Mokume' even though it is exactly the same. But since he is infringing on Ken Onion and Chuck Bybee's patent this should be interesting.

Rob Thomas
http://thomasdamascus.com/
Click to expand...
 
jonnyquest said:
First let me say that Iguana is not strictly Chad Nichols. Actually it is not Chad's at all. What Iguana is - is Chad Nichols copying Devin Thomas' Reptillian.........................
Rob Thomas
http://thomasdamascus.com/
Click to expand...
Dont you think it is the wrong place to write your complain agains Chat Nichols ...... and then make advertising in your web site?
I am open to know all your products, but please do it straight to me.. maybe in Atlanta at the Blade Show.
No need to vilify someone..
 
A question for GianniLion: I just received my bella Iguana Damascus SR-1 last week and I am wondering, what is the Rockwell hardness of the blade? Please accept my compliments for a truly beautiful knife. Not only the design but the fit and finish are top drawer! It's my first Lion Steel but probably not my last...:thumbup::thumbup:
 
Reston said:
...just received my bella Iguana Damascus SR-1 last week...
Click to expand...
Iguana, I love iguana!!! Yo, yo, where the pics at!!! :D

While you're waiting for Gianni to answer, I bet the hardness of that SS damascus depending on Lion Steel's heat-treating is bound to be between 58-62... .
 
Travelller, you first asked the question about the SR-1's damascus blade hardness 10 months ago at the top of this thread. I asked now because I did not see an answer (probably an oversight by Gianni) and I'd also like to know. I asked Chad Nichols yesterday and he replied that it: "...should be 58-59 but I did not harden it so i can only assume." I haven't used my SR-1 enough to form an opinion about edge retention, etc.

I became curious about the damascus on my SR-1 following my experience touching up the blade with an ultra fine Spyderco ceramic stick after I noticed a slight burr on the edge (next to the tang), in itself no big deal (overall, the edge was nicely polished and hair-shaving sharp).

Anyway, the burr seemed surprisingly easy to smooth out and that was what spurred my question about the hardness of the steel. By comparison, I have a German folder with a damascus blade that is very hard (65-67HRC), according to the manufacturer, and elbow grease expended touching up that blade seems to support its HRC rating. I also have a folder made in Idaho with a ladder damascus blade that seems to fall between my SR-1 and my German knife in ease of sharpening.

As a point of interest, Chad did have some other things to say about maintaining the SR-1's damascus steel as follows:
"-oil it or wax it will help , it needs a little more care than regular stainless the black is an eched oxide it is only on the surface and can be worn off .* the good thing is it can be put back and if taken care of oiled waxed etc.) should remain for a long time
*
-just sharpen as you would any knife
*
-i usually sharpen with a 400 grit belt then strop
*
-just get some screw drivers that fit the knife along with some lock tight . eventually you will have to re-etch the blade .* the cool thing is when you do it will look brand new again ferric chloride mixed with 50/50 with white vinegar is what we use.
you should not need to do this for a while."

Oh, about photos of this beautiful knife: Sorry about no pix but I don't think I'm allowed to post images until I become a paying member.:shame:
 
GianniLion, based on my subjective experience (as described to Travelller just above) and your information, the Iguana pattern blade on my SR-1 is softer than I'm used to when compared with my other (damascus blade) knives and I'd like to learn more about this from your perspective as it relates to optimal blade edge retention:

Would you please discuss the decision to heat treat your SR-1 damascus blades to 56/58 HRC in re: edge retention? I am interested in better understanding this aspect of knife production, especially from your point of view as a high-end knife manufacturer.

Respectfully,
Reston
 
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