Damascus Blues

G

godogs57

Joined
Apr 16, 2004
Messages
782
At the blade show I bought some damascus to try for the first time. Bought some ATS 34 damascus that turned out great. There was no nickle in it, so you don't have the variations in color, but the texture, so to speak is great. I also bought two more pieces that I had hoped to work up, but things did not work out and I wondered if this is a common thing. My first piece was a twist pattern made by Thunderforged and it had a cold shunt ( I believe this is what they call it) out at the tip that did not show until things were 99% finished. It turned out to be a 1/2" in long, relatively deep, fizzure.....wasted several hours for nothing. My other piece was a birdseye pattern that, upon grinding, it was not birdseye at all...it was "nothing", not even a random pattern. I was grinding, heat treating, forging the other night when I discovered this (with some friends that are ABS Journeymen) and they told me that the birdseye pattern was impressed into the steel and I was "took to the cleaners" by the guy I bought my three pieces of damascus from at the Blade show. Buy three pieces and only one turned out satisfactory...has anyone else experienced this? I am new to this damascus stuff and was just wondering. I was thinking about just sticking to name brand stuff, but then this happened with the Thunderforged stuff...wonder if they will make good on it?

One last question...I am etching with the Radio Shack etchant...any sugestions on what to darken it with after etching? Thanks.
 
Sorry about all that. I have tried only one 12 inch bar of Thunderforged. It was fine.

Did you try lightly scrubbing the stainless damascus with 0000 steel wool and soap? That may bring out the contrast.

RL
 
I am truly sorry to hear about your problems. Things like this give the industry a bad name. I've seen some beautiful Damascus from the middle east. I doubt there is one carbon molecule floating around in it!

Cold shuts happen. I would suggest you contact Thunderforge about it. I have not heard anything bad about them and good companies like happy customers.

I have only purchased (traded) Damascus from two places. I got some years ago from Bruce Evans and it was fine. If it wasn't, he would have broken his neck trying to make it fine.

I buy some from Damasteel from time to time and have never had a problem.

The rest, I make. Making my own Damascus is a sign of a successful knife maker that forges IMHO. Otherwise I wouldn't use it. It (also IMHO) is no better than solid steel, just prettier!

Try Thunderforge and chalk up the other pieces to sad experience.
 
godogs57 said:
At the blade show I bought some damascus to try for the first time. Bought some ATS 34 damascus that turned out great. There was no nickle in it, so you don't have the variations in color, but the texture, so to speak is great. I also bought two more pieces that I had hoped to work up, but things did not work out and I wondered if this is a common thing. My first piece was a twist pattern made by Thunderforged and it had a cold shunt ( I believe this is what they call it) out at the tip that did not show until things were 99% finished. It turned out to be a 1/2" in long, relatively deep, fizzure.....wasted several hours for nothing. My other piece was a birdseye pattern that, upon grinding, it was not birdseye at all...it was "nothing", not even a random pattern. I was grinding, heat treating, forging the other night when I discovered this (with some friends that are ABS Journeymen) and they told me that the birdseye pattern was impressed into the steel and I was "took to the cleaners" by the guy I bought my three pieces of damascus from at the Blade show. Buy three pieces and only one turned out satisfactory...has anyone else experienced this? I am new to this damascus stuff and was just wondering. I was thinking about just sticking to name brand stuff, but then this happened with the Thunderforged stuff...wonder if they will make good on it?

One last question...I am etching with the Radio Shack etchant...any sugestions on what to darken it with after etching? Thanks.
Click to expand...

Godogs57....Drop me a call at your earliest conveience, I would personally like to make everything right, a happy customer is always our first objective.

I see you that you too are from GA, if you wish, come on over to the shop, would love to have you over & give you a 'dime' tour.

Thanks & look forward to hearing from you in the near future.

Best regards,

Ric C. Chopra
Vice President & General Manager
Universal Agencies, Inc.
4690 South Old Peachtree Rd
Suite C
Norcross, GA 30071 USA
Tel: 678-969-9147
Fax: 678-969-9169
Email: rcchopra@uai.org
www.knifesupplies.com
 
Just for information sake, I have used a lot of Thunderforge Damascus and never had problems with it. Frank
 
Something, too, that one has to remember about some patterns:

Ladder, raindrop, birdseye, are all made by surface manipulation of the billet. They are often cut in certain ways, or drilled, and then reflattened to create the pattern. (This isn't always 100% true. Nowadays, some people use impression dies to push form into a billet. The raised parts are then ground away to a flat bar.) It doesn't go all the way through the steel. They are, essentially, retained by forging to shape. Grinding into them reveals the interior, where there is no real pattern. The more grinding, the more loss of pattern.

Twist, on the other hand, involves the entire billet. Thus, a new "view" is found the further one grinds into a billet. That is why one sometimes sees the twists as bands, and other times sees it as the little "stars". Because one is twisting a layered mateial, huge shear forces are created.

As for cold shuts, well, make damascus and there will be cold shuts at times, or slag inclusions that will etch out. It's unavoidable, and you don't "discover" it until you get into the billet. Better to have it show in your hands than two months after the customer gets it and an inclusion pops from an incomplete weld.

In terms of steel like this, I think that if the manufacturer stands behind his material and is willing to replace it, then that is about the most of a guarantee one can really expect. Not saying this to be mean or a wiseguy, but there are pitfalls that can occur with damascus, just like one can find pits even in powder-metal technology homogeneous steel. It's just the nature of the beast.
 
Thanks for all the comments guys. Like many of you, I have heard nothing but good comments about Thunderforged, so it had me shaking my head about the whole deal.

Ric, I will give you a buzz tomorrow. There is a chance that I will be in Atlanta on business Wednesday and Thursday and would love to stop by and purchase some more. Your concern for a customer is consistant with the comments I have heard about you folks....it is appreciated.

Take Care
 
I've used a good bit of the Thunderforge Damascus and have never had any problems with it. I've got a couple of pieces in the shop right now. I like the stuff. Ric is a good man to deal with and he will do his best to make things right.
 
I apologize if my little "lecture" above sounded like a wisarse. I didn't mean to come off that way. Several days of very limited tobacco consumption as I try to quit the smokes has left me with some mood swings.

Again, apologies if I offended.
 
I apologize if my little "lecture" above sounded like a wisarse

Mike, the last time I quit smoking the auto editors on some of my sites just bleeped everything out.
Stay with it my friend! ;)
 
Thanks, Peter! This time I have to make it happen; it's become a necessity. Just can't post anywhere for awhile apparently! :eek:
 
Hang in there Mike! You can do it this time! I've been off of them going on 23 years now. I think it "took" this time :D Chew lots of Eclipse gum from Walmart.
 
Basically there is two ways to impart and pattern into a billet of steel. One is to cut the pattern in and forgeto shape. The other is to press the pattern in and then remove the high spots. On a pressed pattern you can not forge to shape without distorting or distrorying the pattern. So you must stock removel the pressed billet. If the pressed pattern is done correctly the pattern will go to the core of the billet so no matter how much steel is ground off the pattern will show up when etched.

Michael
 
Mike,
Good luck on quitting. I finally did it in 1983, after a dozen attempts. I figured out that its that first one you let yourself have as a reward for being good the does you in. Have gone 21 years without the first one. I can't stand the taste of gum to this day since...
 
One last thought Mike, it's not only a nicotine addiction situation, it's more a self-control thing, and I KNOW you have a lot of that! You'll beat it.
 
I wanted to follow up on my first experience with Damascus. Mr. Ric Chopra with Thunderforged was kind enough to replace the piece that had the cold shut in the tip...and then some. While I was there, he gave me the 50 cent tour of the place which was very impressive. To say that customer satisfaction was their #1 goal would be a big understatement! Ric went way out of his way to ensure that I was completely satisfied.

Based upon my experience with Ric, I can wholeheartedly recommend him and Thunderforged for those who wish to purchase damascus in the future. Its a pleasure to see folks like that in the business industry...you don't see folks like that often enough.

Hope everyone had a great 4th.
 
This thread had a great ending, and I love happy endings! It's good to know folks like Ric are out there to make things "right" when a situation like this occurs. Thanks Ric! I'll remember this thread!
 
Hi Folks,

Thanks for the kind words, I do appreciate it.

Our goal as a mail order company are never to meet a customer's expectations, we like to raise the bar & always exceed a customers expectataions.

Hank, was a pleasure to have you & your wife at the shop, hope we can do it again soon, you are always welcome to visit.

As always, everyone is welcome to the shop for a tour or to shop in person. Just drop us a call to make an apponitment, tel # is 678-969-9147.

Our new catalogs are out, if you wish to rec. a free copy, please email us at catalog@knifesupplies.com we will get a fresh copy sent off right away.

Thanks for all the kind comments folks, I do apprecaite it. In return, if you place any future orders within 60 days, just remind me of this thread, take 10% off orders of $150 or more.

Best regards,

Ric C. Chopra
www.knifesupplies.com
 
Fitzo,
It didn't bother me that much when I quit. Or so it seemed. Every body else could tell it though. :) I did learn to detect the oncoming of a storm and seek an area away from the reason, and relax for a few minutes. Prayer helps. At least it did me.
Hello Rick, glad to see you on the forums. Sorry I didn't make it to the Blade Show.
 
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