damascus fake?

J

jazzturtle

Joined
Dec 20, 2008
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3
Hi, I need help in understanding something, thanks!
I have recently bought 2 steel blank blades sold as genuine damascus.
I am not an expert but I enjoy making new handles to blades and I have a very little knowledge of damascus steel. By the informations I have read about this I thought that the pattern should be in the structure and not only on the surface. In other words, if we slice a blade in two, shouldn' t we find the pattern in the middle too? I have then tried to sand off with some sand paper a little part of the blade on the handle side and I have easily reached a steel surface look where the pattern was completely gone. Does it mean that it is not real damascus? If it is so, how can a blade last years, beeing used a beeing worn, and still have its pattern?
 
First possibility, the blade isn't really damascus. Plenty of knives are available with the surfaces etched to look like damascus.

Second possibility, the surface of damascus blades are often acid-treated to highlight the different layers. Polish through the depth of the acid treatment, and the layers may not be visible.
 
Is it normal then that the pattern is only on the surface on a genuine damascus blade?
This is the description of one of the blanks on sale on ebay, from where I have bought my two blades too.


DAMASCUS STEEL BILLET BLADE BLANK, KNIFE MAKING

Overall length is 9.5" Approx, Thickness 0.118", Genuine Damascus blade
Never used, or carried. Our Damascus steel is 200 + layers of low carbon steel and high carbon steel. The hardness of the steel is 56 - 60 HRC.
ready for handles.

And....I don' t know if it works, but this should be the link of the same blade on sale, where you can see the pics too. If it doesn' t work you can get on ebay.co.uk and just insert damascus knife making, the sellr is called mr.maan and he has quite a few on sale on the ebay. I have got my blades for a cheap price on auctions and it makes me suspicious too, thinking they are not as good as they look. But as I said I am not expert...so...I need help!
I would like to know if what I have bought is any good and if is normal that the pattern is only on the surface. Thanks

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DAMASCUS-STEE...14&_trkparms=72:1294|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318
 
That certainly looks to be genuine Damascus and the pattern should carry throughout the blade. I think it is as stated by Bob W, you sanded though the acid etching. The pattern is still there, just very hard to see without the contrast provided by the etching. You will need to re-etch the blade to get it back.
 
jazzturtle said:
Hi, I need help in understanding something, thanks!
I have recently bought 2 steel blank blades sold as genuine damascus.
I am not an expert but I enjoy making new handles to blades and I have a very little knowledge of damascus steel. By the informations I have read about this I thought that the pattern should be in the structure and not only on the surface. In other words, if we slice a blade in two, shouldn' t we find the pattern in the middle too? I have then tried to sand off with some sand paper a little part of the blade on the handle side and I have easily reached a steel surface look where the pattern was completely gone. Does it mean that it is not real damascus? If it is so, how can a blade last years, beeing used a beeing worn, and still have its pattern?
Click to expand...

Damascus pattern is visible only because it is etched, so once you removed top etched layer you need to etch it again - if you will not see pattern after that then you may assume that it was fake.

This is how to etch (it is for wootz, but it same for damasc:

http://playground.sun.com/~vasya/Obach-01.html

Thanks, Vassili.
 
These are real damascus carbon steel blades made in pakistan, hence the low price.
I have two rather nice and well made hunting knives from the same vendor. At least mine were both real damascus, I expect yours to be as well.
 
Another way to test if it is Real Damascus is to polish it up about 1000 grit then you should be able to see some of the pattern ..
i know someone who bought several Pakistan damascus blades ..they were if fact real Damascus some were good buy's some were not they had inclusion's /bad weld's and a poor heat treat but for the $20 he paid he got exactly what he paid for .. there is a old saying that applies to this kind of thing . Price/Quality/ Service pick any 2 .. Most "Bladesmith's" can't buy the material's to make any real damascus for $20 ive bought stock to make 1 "Billet" /rough bar and after cutting everything up i had more than 15 feet of steel that yeilded a finished bar that was barely 2 feet long my cost was about $100 not counting the half a day labor to make it
 
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