Damascus Steel Confusion- The Good, The Bad, and The Not So Ugly

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Chessie

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Dec 24, 2016
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I'm confused on what exactly genuine Damascus steel actually is. From what I've read, it is a specific metallurgy that has to do with the composition of the metal itself being extremely strong. But what I see advertised only appears to be a chemical reaction that gives an artistic flare to the blade design....analogous to artificial carbon fiber. Looks cool with a weave patter, but isn't the real deal.

Am I wrong?

Can someone please shed light? Seems convuluted and an expensive upgrade. Buttttt, don't get me wrong, I dig it and am considering buying a piece.
 
"Ancient" damascus is the legendary steel that has bands of carbides running through it that create a distinctive pattern: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damascus_steel. The specifics of its manufacture are not well understood. It is awesome and mysterious stuff. More info: http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/jom/9809/verhoeven-9809.html

"Modern" damascus consists of two or more steels that are "pattern welded," that is, welded together and folded to create cool designs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pattern_welding. You don't actually see the differences in the steels until you acid etch them (one steel generally etching at a faster rate than the other, which gives the blade its appearance).

"Fake" damascus (what you might find on a flea-market knife) is printed onto a blade made of a single piece of steel. I'm actually not sure how this works.

Anyone who know more about this than I do (I don't know much), please feel free to correct me or give better info. I'd be happy to learn!
 
Thanks Bran. That sheds light on the subject. I wanted to make sure I understood this correctly. So let's say I buy a CRK Seb 21 Drop Point Damascus blade. The blade steel itself is different from the Crucible steel used?..and you get that great acid etched look to boot?...but the downside is compromised corrosion resistance?
 
There is stainless damacus and carbon steel Damascus, there is no performance over modern steel for any Damascus new or old, you should buy it because you appreciate the art and craftsmanship of it. Otherwise get the s35vn
 
Chessie said:
Thanks Bran. That sheds light on the subject. I wanted to make sure I understood this correctly. So let's say I buy a CRK Seb 21 Drop Point Damascus blade. The blade steel itself is different from the Crucible steel used?..and you get that great acid etched look to boot?...but the downside is compromised corrosion resistance?
Click to expand...

CRK uses Devin Thomas (DT) damascus. Take this one for example: http://www.knifeart.com/dase1.html. It uses stainless DT damascus. According to DT's site, their stainless damascus consists of AEB-L and 304 steel folded together. However, they only use a tiny pinch of 304 steel (just enough to give it the pattern welded look), because 304 isn't hardenable, and if you added a lot it would reduce the usefulness of the AEB-L. (I'm getting that from their FAQ: http://www.devinthomas.com/faq.html.)

Note that when we're dealing with damascus, a lot of the times you're folding a hardenable steel together with something really soft (but not enough of the latter is used to create a low hardness steel). Other times you are folding together two equally hardenable steels, in which case, some people say the resulting damascus will be the "sum of its parts" (while other people say that's not the case).

Some damascus is stainless, and some isn't. It depends completely on the steels that are used. I think it's generally more common to have non-stainless damascus, though.
 
I mostly use modern steels, but I do carry 3-4 Damascus(pattern welded) knives in my rotation. On thing about it is it is very easy to sharpen and gets very sharp. Another is the more you use it, it can develop micro-serrations that can aid in cutting. It happens when the softer of the two metals wears away quicker leaving the harder steel on the edge.

All in all, modern steels are generally much better for an edc. I would choose 3V, M390/20CV, M4, PD1, and K390 over it any day for my EDC's, especially a hard use blade.

One more thing, if the pattern is not etched deep, the pattern will fade quickly and you will have to re-etch it. I have had to do that multiple times.
 
Chessie said:
I'm confused on what exactly genuine Damascus steel actually is. From what I've read, it is a specific metallurgy that has to do with the composition of the metal itself being extremely strong. But what I see advertised only appears to be a chemical reaction that gives an artistic flare to the blade design....analogous to artificial carbon fiber. Looks cool with a weave patter, but isn't the real deal.

Am I wrong?

Can someone please shed light? Seems convuluted and an expensive upgrade. Buttttt, don't get me wrong, I dig it and am considering buying a piece.
Click to expand...

Be careful where and what you buy. These days there is a flood of cheap damascus imported from the middle east. You won't know what steel is in it or how it is hardened.

Ancient metallurgy couldn't produce steel with carbon all the way through, only on the surface. So take that steel, flatten it out to be very thin, fold it over and now you have a piece of steel with carbon on the outside and a thin layer on the inside. Hammer it out thin, fold it over, hammer it out, fold it over, and after awhile you have a lot of very thin layers stacked together with carbon somewhat diffused all the way through. Now create a blade out of it. Craftsmen these days will alternate different types of steel so when they etch it the pattern of the different layers will be visible. They may also hammer the billet over a pattern to put waves in the layers, then when grinding out the blade you will cut through more of the layers to create a different pattern. Properly done there is a lot of work involved which makes good damascus somewhat expensive. The people that make art knives have carried damascus creation so far that I can't begin to describe how it's done.

I have a few damascus knives. I like the hand craftsmanship that goes into it and the connection to the ancient technology, and I think a lot of other people do too.
 
Acid etching is an important part of pattern welded or Damascus blades. The acid reacts differently with the individual layers of steel in the blade highlighting the pattern in the steel. You can't clearly see the layers until the blade has been etched.

I understand there are ways to take a mono (single homogeneous) steel and mask off a pattern and etch the blade that will then have a pattern etched into the surface but still be one steel throughout.

There are many ways to fold/twist/dimple/grind a billet of stacked layers of steel to create different patterns.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBxblzxIXK4&feature=em-uploademail

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObYP1jTJ9MM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CouB9aQ9vvc
 
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