Damascus steel fake?

C

Capibat

Joined
Jul 1, 2019
Messages
11
Hi all,

A couple days ago I got a Damascus steel knife as a gift and upon delivery I started inspecting it and noticed some details that I didn't like.
To begin with, the blade is not quite sharp and actually rough to the touch and with a couple of small "dings" like what you'd get if you were to bang the blade against steel bar or something similar.
Secondly, the pattern of the blade has a quite obvious interruption that suggests it is laser etched or perhaps pressed onto the blade.

Being new to the knife world, I did my homework and researched before posting here and based on the information I gathered, I've came to the conclusion that this is an item being sold for what it is not.

Would anyone be able to confirm my suspicions about this or perhaps comment about the characteristics and condition of this knife based on these pictures?

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That doesn't look "fake" just either over polished or under etched.

Damascus is just pattern welded steel that anyone can make and it's incredibly common these days.

It's like saying your new car comes with free paint or seating. Unremarkable.
 
Does the knife have any stamps or markings on it to identify who made it or where it came from?

I'd wager it's an "inexpensive" knife made in Pakistan, and that the blade is made out of various pieces of scrap steel hammered together.

My advice, use it for a few simple cutting tasks at home so you can tell the person that gave it to you that you use it, tell them how sharp it is and how great it cuts, send them a picture of it on display, and put it on display if they ever come over.

Beyond that, I would look upon an "inexpensive" knife gifted to me from Pakistan as nothing more than that- a gift.
 
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Thanks for the replies.

I should have worded this better, I got this knife to give it as a present to somebody.
I bought it from Etsy, therefore I wasn't expecting a remarkable quality but at least a decent one. The knife doesn't have any markings whatsoever so I understand that it is "just another inexpensive knife".
It was advertised as "layered with 1095 and 15N20 for a long-lasting sharp edge", and while it is obviously as sharp as any piece of steel sharpened to the thickness of this cutting edge, is it not at all as sharp as my every day kitchen knife from KitchenAid. Perhaps I was expecting too much from this knife.
Makes me think that killgar is right, the blade must be made of various pieces of scrap steel hammered together.

So, I knew I wasn't getting high end product here but like anybody, I don't like receiving something different from what I thought I was paying for.
I guess I'll return it and keep looking for another gift.

To clarify, does the spot on the blade near the handle where there is no pattern can be an indication of this pattern being laser etched or something like that?
 
Capibat said:
Thanks for the replies.

I should have worded this better, I got this knife to give it as a present to somebody.
I bought it from Etsy, therefore I wasn't expecting a remarkable quality but at least a decent one. The knife doesn't have any markings whatsoever so I understand that it is "just another inexpensive knife".
It was advertised as "layered with 1095 and 15N20 for a long-lasting sharp edge", and while it is obviously as sharp as any piece of steel sharpened to the thickness of this cutting edge, is it not at all as sharp as my every day kitchen knife from KitchenAid. Perhaps I was expecting too much from this knife.
Makes me think that killgar is right, the blade must be made of various pieces of scrap steel hammered together.

So, I knew I wasn't getting high end product here but like anybody, I don't like receiving something different from what I thought I was paying for.
I guess I'll return it and keep looking for another gift.

To clarify, does the spot on the blade near the handle where there is no pattern can be an indication of this pattern being laser etched or something like that?
Click to expand...

I'm no expert on laser etching equipment, but if I'm correct and the knife comes from Pakistan, then I would seriously doubt that the maker would own such expensive equipment. Why go through the effort and expense of trying to fake a Damascus pattern when cheap "Damascus" steel is plentiful in Pakistan.

I'd guess that any apparent flaws in the "Damascus" pattern are simply a result of production. I don't think that Pakistani knife makers are all that concerned about producing a consistent or attractive "Damascus" pattern. Just pound out the "steel", crank out the knife, and get paid.
 
Also, if you're buying a knife as a gift for a true "knife person", then I would suggest finding out what type of knives they like and use, and what they use them for, and then ask the members here for suggestions.

Otherwise, the knife you gift them might just be used to cut a few things around the house, they might tell you how sharp the knife is and how great it cuts, they might send you a picture of the knife on display in their home, and put the knife on display if you ever visit ;). The rest of the time the knife might sit in the bottom of a drawer somewhere and never see the light of day.
 
Capibat said:
Thanks for the replies.

I should have worded this better, I got this knife to give it as a present to somebody.
I bought it from Etsy, therefore I wasn't expecting a remarkable quality but at least a decent one. The knife doesn't have any markings whatsoever so I understand that it is "just another inexpensive knife".
It was advertised as "layered with 1095 and 15N20 for a long-lasting sharp edge", and while it is obviously as sharp as any piece of steel sharpened to the thickness of this cutting edge, is it not at all as sharp as my every day kitchen knife from KitchenAid. Perhaps I was expecting too much from this knife.
Makes me think that killgar is right, the blade must be made of various pieces of scrap steel hammered together.

So, I knew I wasn't getting high end product here but like anybody, I don't like receiving something different from what I thought I was paying for.
I guess I'll return it and keep looking for another gift.

To clarify, does the spot on the blade near the handle where there is no pattern can be an indication of this pattern being laser etched or something like that?
Click to expand...
Just return it and avoid that site for hand made knives.

There is a entire business built around making low quality pattern welded knives like this one that uses eBay and Esty to make it appear they're a small smith with some quality blades to sell and it's very much the opposite. They are not small operations and the products are low quality.
 
Very good points. I wasn't aware of that kind of steel being abundant in Pakistan.
Since I'm unhappy with the product and it can be returned, it will go back for sure.

Perhaps you could give some suggestions on brands and models?
This knife would be for a 50th birthday so I thought about buying a nice looking knife.
The person I'm getting the knife for likes the outdoors and knives a lot but is not super crazy about brands and such, just good functional knives and if they are nice ones that's a plus.
I was looking for a good hunting/camping knife that has some nice design to it.
 
Capibat said:
Very good points. I wasn't aware of that kind of steel being abundant in Pakistan.
Since I'm unhappy with the product and it can be returned, it will go back for sure.

Perhaps you could give some suggestions on brands and models?
This knife would be for a 50th birthday so I thought about buying a nice looking knife.
The person I'm getting the knife for likes the outdoors and knives a lot but is not super crazy about brands and such, just good functional knives and if they are nice ones that's a plus.
I was looking for a good hunting/camping knife that has some nice design to it.
Click to expand...

My camping days are long behind me (I've grown too fond of the comforts of "civilized living"), so I'm not knowledgeable about good camping/hunting knives currently available.

I would suggest starting a new thread asking for recommendations. Members who might not be drawn to read this thread might be more drawn to a thread asking for gift ideas. The members here are happy, and even eager to give good suggestions.
 
I don't know your budget but this is an excellent hunting knife from a great company.
The Buck Vanguard, they start at $75 with the synthetic handle and go up in price depending on the handle material.
This one is walnut ... about$90. Lifetime warranty.

BU192BR_1.jpg
 
Yeah it for sure would be worthwhile posting a new thread to get suggestions and make sure you set your budget range there.
 
It's just a surface feature. The interruption you photographed is a wide band of 15N20 that was almost perfectly flat to the wheel or belt when the blade was ground. You're seeing the surface of that wide layer in one spot only because it is flat at the ricasso. Had the maker ground it just a touch thinner there, you'd likely have a relatively wide band of dark steel, 1095, in the same spot.

It really is nothing to be concerned with. Sharpen it properly, and give it to your friend. It'll be the gift YOU decided on, not me...
 
If you buy knives of questionable origin then you never know what the material or the heat treat is. If it is a knife that someone would display or look at, then it probably doesn't matter. If the performance does matter then first you can guess that you can't make a decent piece of damascus, grind it, put handles on it, and sell it for a price as low as a simple factory-made knife. But if you really want to know then test it yourself-

I have watched lots of knife tests where someone took a knife in the latest super steel and tested it by cutting strips of cardboard and counting how many feet they cut. I was buying lots of custom hunting knives years ago and spending a lot of time searching online including ebay. This was long before the overseas makers flooded the market with questionable blades. Anyway I bought a small custom knife for a low price but it obviously wasn't up to the quality of other knives I was buying and I figured it wasn't usable. After watching the tests other people did, I did my own test by cutting cardboard. I found that this little knife wasn't very good but it wasn't pure junk and was usable. After all if a knife has reasonable steel and good heat treat it will make a good knife, if the steel and/or the heat treat is bad then it will dull very quickly. So if you want a knife to perform, and it does, then it doesn't matter what the materials are.

I've gone to big gun shows to look at knives, and there you might find a number of custom knife makers sitting at their table with 5 or 10 or maybe even 15 knives on their table for sale at prices that you would expect. I've also seen one or two people maybe sitting behind 2 long tables, just piled high with "custom damascus knives". It's pretty obvious to me that this guy didn't make all of those knives.
 
Thanks for all the replies.

I understand and agree that a knife is as good as what it is going to be used for, so while I could sharpen the blade and ignore the pattern interruption dismissing it as aesthetical imperfection, my problem with this particular knife is that I opened the box and was unimpressed with the overall quality of the knife including the blade itself. One thing is looking at a beautiful photo on a screen (even if it's the actual knife you'll be receiving) and another is seeing and handling the actual knife; and receiving a supposedly sharp knife that rips paper instead of cutting it, should raise a concern about the quality its blade.

Again, I could sharpen the knife and I would be hoping that it would stay sharp for a while. So since I'm looking for a memorably knife that is also a dependable tool that will perform when is needed, the quality of the blade is as important as what it looks like.

As a reference, I paid $110 for this knife, so if the suggested Buck knife is a dependable one, then $95 is great. I would even go double if the knife is "prettier", which of course is subjective.
 
I've been bit more than once by a good-looking knife online, willing to take a gamble, hoping for the best, and being disappointed when it turned out to be junk. I would imagine that many on this forum have, at least once.

I remember not one, but two Spanish Navajas I bought separately that were total junk. And a Rough Rider bowie (model RR1395) that looked great online, but was total junk (I wouldn't be surprised if it was made in Pakistan). And I certainly wasn't new to knives when I made those purchases. Buying knives online is sometimes a gamble.
 
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Capibat said:
Thanks for all the replies.

I understand and agree that a knife is as good as what it is going to be used for, so while I could sharpen the blade and ignore the pattern interruption dismissing it as aesthetical imperfection, my problem with this particular knife is that I opened the box and was unimpressed with the overall quality of the knife including the blade itself. One thing is looking at a beautiful photo on a screen (even if it's the actual knife you'll be receiving) and another is seeing and handling the actual knife; and receiving a supposedly sharp knife that rips paper instead of cutting it, should raise a concern about the quality its blade.

Again, I could sharpen the knife and I would be hoping that it would stay sharp for a while. So since I'm looking for a memorably knife that is also a dependable tool that will perform when is needed, the quality of the blade is as important as what it looks like.

As a reference, I paid $110 for this knife, so if the suggested Buck knife is a dependable one, then $95 is great. I would even go double if the knife is "prettier", which of course is subjective.
Click to expand...
Shoot me a PM.
 
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