Damascus steel stock removal for first knife?

L

LuL7n7

Joined
Apr 29, 2014
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Hi. I have been doing plenty of reading here and saw someone say that Damascus steel is not for beginners. Why?

Assuming I am using stock removal method (not gonna try and hammer out the steel). I know that it's best to buy known steel (aldo's 1095 or 1085). But I don't want or need 10 knives. Lol I have crappy 440 steel knives that are haven't been used for more than opening letters or occasional amazon packages.

Additional info on intent and purposes:
I plan on only making 2 knives (small 2.5-3 inch edc knife and one larger) ever. I don't plan on selling them, I just want to make my own blade and be a part or the process.
I plan on sending the knife blanks out to heat treat.
I will buy a scroll to help make sure I do not make the blanks too thin and then sharpen after heat treat. (to avoid getting that wavy bacon failure)

I have a bench wheel grinder, an angle cutter, a dremel, EZ clamps, and will buy good files

with all that said, should I still avoid buying Damascus steel billet for my first project?
 
Yes. The tools you have to go with are very poor choices to make any knives. With what you have said I really don't believe you have read the stickies at the top of the page. Bench grinders are a very poor way to try for good results. hand files would be a much better choice that would get the work done. What is this "scroll" you mentioned? Did you mean calipers? Frank
 
Yes, calipers are on the purchase list too. I meant scribe not scroll (to draw the lines so I don't make edge too thin before heat treating). Thanks for the input.

I know the belt grinders work much better but I really only want to make one or two knives. I was under the impression that the bench grinder was ok to use to make the initial plunge line and finish off with the file. But if you say its better to just use the file then I'll do that.

How are the tools poor (aside from the bench vs disc/belt grinder)? I've seen people say that they've used drill presses and chisels to profile the knife then used a dremmel to clean it up. I was under the impression that I had better resources :rolleyes:

Ironically, I have poor tools to get the job done once with damascus steel so the correct answer is to do it 10 times with 1085 carbon steel.:(
 
Go for it! If your results are less than you expect come back for some advice. Advice given here is given to help save money, time, to promote saftey and shorten the learning curve. Jess
 
I think the main thing that keeps beginners away from damascus is the cost and the understanding that you're not going to be satisfied with your first knife.
I think most new makers that keep at it, and invest a lot of time in not only doing but learning, will make HUGE improvements after the first several knives.
I'm still very new at knife making (<1yr) and each knife I make is still a good deal better than the last.
Yes, the best answer is to make a few knives first, then make one from damascus. 1080/1084 (or even just mild steel if you plan on chunking them in the trash) and the extra sandpaper, ect to make a few "practice knives" is a tiny fraction of the cost of damascus stock.
It's not the tools that will keep you from making a mistake, it's the lack of experience. You can make a damn fine knife just using files. But it is HIGHLY likely that you'll make several mistakes on those first few knives.
However, if you don't mind rolling the dice on ruining a very expensive piece of damascus right off the bat, go for it.
 
FullyTorque said:
I think the main thing that keeps beginners away from damascus is the cost and the understanding that you're not going to be satisfied with your first knife.
I think most new makers that keep at it, and invest a lot of time in not only doing but learning, will make HUGE improvements after the first several knives.
I'm still very new at knife making (<1yr) and each knife I make is still a good deal better than the last.
Yes the answer is to make a few knives first, then make one from damascus. 1080/1084 (or even just mild steel if you plan on chunking them in the trash) and the extra sandpaper, ect to make a few "practice knives" is a tiny fraction of the cost of a damascus blank.
It's not the tools that will keep you from making a mistake, it's the lack of experience. You can make a damn fine knife just using files.
However, if you don't mind rolling the dice on ruining a very expensive piece of damascus right off the bat, go for it.
Click to expand...


Very well said!
 
carbonsteel928 said:
Very well said!
Click to expand...
Actually, I said it wrong. :D
shoulda said "making a decent knife" instead of "making a mistake" but you know what I meant.
But yeah, each knife for a new maker is a huge learning experience. It's worth the time and extra materials to make your "keeper" knife that much better.
 
FullyTorque said:
I think the main thing that keeps beginners away from damascus is the cost and the understanding that you're not going to be satisfied with your first knife.
I think most new makers that keep at it, and invest a lot of time in not only doing but learning, will make HUGE improvements after the first several knives.
I'm still very new at knife making (<1yr) and each knife I make is still a good deal better than the last.
Yes, the best answer is to make a few knives first, then make one from damascus. 1080/1084 (or even just mild steel if you plan on chunking them in the trash) and the extra sandpaper, ect to make a few "practice knives" is a tiny fraction of the cost of damascus stock.
It's not the tools that will keep you from making a mistake, it's the lack of experience. You can make a damn fine knife just using files. But it is HIGHLY likely that you'll make several mistakes on those first few knives.
However, if you don't mind rolling the dice on ruining a very expensive piece of damascus right off the bat, go for it.
Click to expand...

Ya, what he said!
 
If your goal truly is to only make one or two knives, money isn't an issue, and you plan on sending them out for heat treatment, use Damascus steel or whatever else you want. The only reason people would suggest beginners avoid it is because it is very cost prohibitive, and a beginner would likely be better off saving it until his skills are a bit better.

That said, I second/third/fourth the advice given to you. Stick to hand tools, especially if you're going to use expensive materials (the drill press is fine). I know it sounds daunting to remove that much metal by hand, and it's tempting to take the "shortcut" with power tools, but trust me when I say that hand tools will save you time and frustration in the end as a beginner... and more importantly, you'll be far more proud of the two knives you plan on making. And anyways, If you only plan on making those two and being done with it... why rush to get them finished? Take your time, work as slowly as you need to make them as best you can.

Now, the thing about power tools is that they do indeed work quickly. When you're a beginner, your mind will often know what you want to make, but getting your hands to work in sync with it is the part that takes practice. That translation from your brain to your hands takes more time than it does for someone with practice, so you're also a lot more prone to making mistakes. The problem with power tools, especially ones that are less-than-ideal for knifemaking, is that when you make those mistakes, they're going to be a whole heck of a lot more difficult to fix. They're not very forgiving. You'll spend a lot of time chasing the image in your head... tracking backwards to repair parts that stray from it. In the meantime, you're making more mistakes and having to change that end-image to accommodate them. Pretty soon you've done a whole lot of work and spent a whole lot of time to remove a whole lot of metal that you didn't plan on removing in the first place... and you're left with something rough and misshapen that you would rather hide in the back of your cabinets than show off to your buddies.

Working with files (the key is *good* files) and sandpaper on the other hand will give your hands time to catch up to your brain... and when you do goof up, it wasn't with a wheel of abrasives spinning at 3600 rpm. Fixing them is generally a matter of continuing to work as you were. They still remove metal far faster than you'd expect, so it won't take you forever... especially when you're not chasing mistakes. When the time comes to hand sand, getting a nice finish will actually seem attainable. You'll already have nice, flat surfaces to work with instead of a bunch of nasty gouges. Again, time saver. Oh, and did I mention that the investment is a lot more reasonable?
 
Why don't you post your design? Also, how much of a background do you have in metalworking?
 
Thanks for all the feedback! I see what everyone means about needing to get that experience in a bit more. I will probably be ordering from Jantz to get some 1084 to practice with and play on (will probably give a bunch of my buddies the practice ones). I will try to make two or three small practice ones before I buy a Damascus billet.


I am at work all day but will try to post some things up over the weekend. The design I want is relatively simple though and I don't mind paracord handles so the only real process I have to concern myself with is the profiling and filing (I know, this is an over simplification)

and my experience with metal work is really just cutting it with angle grinders and saws and sanding a bit to remove edges/ burs. I am not an expert, I am just patient and want a project that I can feel proud of.
 
Just go to Harbor freight, spend $45 on there 1x30 belt sander and a few belts, and you'd be set. Who knows, you may want to make more once the knife making bug bites you!
 
I agree 100% with Mike Gesualdo, stick with (good) files and sandpaper and your first blade will be good enough to be happy with. Go to the power tools and your first will be a throwaway. The hand tools grinding gives you the advantage of time to make corrections to both method and blade itself.
 
Why not damascus for your first knife? Because it much less painful to throw away a $5 piece of steel when you screw it up. ;)
 
LuL7n7 said:
Hi. I have been doing plenty of reading here and saw someone say that Damascus steel is not for beginners. Why?

Assuming I am using stock removal method (not gonna try and hammer out the steel). I know that it's best to buy known steel (aldo's 1095 or 1085). But I don't want or need 10 knives. Lol I have crappy 440 steel knives that are haven't been used for more than opening letters or occasional amazon packages.

Additional info on intent and purposes:
I plan on only making 2 knives (small 2.5-3 inch edc knife and one larger) ever. I don't plan on selling them, I just want to make my own blade and be a part or the process.
I plan on sending the knife blanks out to heat treat.
I will buy a scroll to help make sure I do not make the blanks too thin and then sharpen after heat treat. (to avoid getting that wavy bacon failure)

I have a bench wheel grinder, an angle cutter, a dremel, EZ clamps, and will buy good files

with all that said, should I still avoid buying Damascus steel billet for my first project?
Click to expand...



Good luck sticking to only going to make two knives, it's an addiction, you'll get bit by the bug. Read lots and don't forget how important patience is with making things like knives.
 
UUHHHHHH.....Yall realize this is over a year old thread?
 
I see USA Knifemaker has some Damascus made by the Amish. The price is right. I haven't tried it yet, but I will.
Frank
 
Make a filing jig and that will serve you well for your bevels if your only looking to do a couple knives. When I used one I could completely file the bevels out and have the blade sanded to 320 grit and ready to HT in about 3 hours.

Jay
 
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