Damascus steel temperature

K

Kruzer

Joined
Dec 11, 2013
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Hello. I am a 16/y old student living in western canada. Im fortunate enough to have a metalwork shop here, with a working forge. I am looking at ways to make Damascus steel for a working knife. Unfortunately the forge only gets to 1800 degrees, and is unable to go higher. Is there any possible way for me to make Damascus steel, or something similar using a forge with this temperature? I have read that i need at least 2200, but are there softer metals and flux that can work with this temerature?

I am also attempting to make a forge butcher knife out of this damascus. Roughly 10"x4"x1/8", and would love any and all tips on how i would go about doing this. We have an anvil here, but with no press, so it would be a hammering process. Thanks

Best regards, Kruzer.
 
You can't make Damascus at 1800F. However, 1800C will be way more than you need ( around 3200F).

Tell us a bit more about the forge you have available.

You would be far better of with the equipment and experience you have to purchase a bar of lower cost Damascus and forge the knife with the help of someone who knows how to forge. Talk to the shop teacher.

Please fill out your profile. There may be someone who has a forge near you who would help you make the knife you want. Without the profile info, no one can offer help.
 
Personally I would shoot Mike Turner an email. He can make some great damascus and has good pricing.

I have played with making damascus recently with the ol arm and hammer since I dont have a press/rolling mill/ or power hammer. It is a far more difficult task without those big tools of the trade. It can be done if your forge gets hot enough. I actually made a decent little billet but messed it up trying to do a twist which I didnt realize at the time but is some what difficult doing it by hand.

If your doing just a layered damascus it isnt "too bad" depending on how many layers you want.
 
Forge is natural gas, and sadly that temperature is 1800F, not C. the opening is roughly 5" x 5" and roughly 18-24" deep. I have a very experienced shop teacher in regards of making knifes, but he has never forge welded Damascus. And about buying the steel, i have a very small budget, and sadly i doubt it would be enough for the dimensions i listed above. I got a quote from a guy a few days ago who said it would be around 300$.

Updated my profile a bit.

Who is this mysterious Mike Turner?

Thanks
 
Mile Turner is a member here who makes damascus and laminate (san mai) billets and list them occasionally. He will work up what you want usually. I would drop him a PM or email and see what he can do. Although at 4" wide it is probably gonna be pricey I imagine around what you were quoted but I would still give him a shout and see what he could do for you. http://www.turnerknives.com/
 
A bar of Alabama Damascus 20"X4.5" sells for $200. Go a tad narrower to just under 4" by 14.5" long and the cost drops to $150. Go down to 2.5" by 14" and it is $100. Around $50 for a 12X1.5" bar.

Questions and comments -
Why do you need it so wide? 2" is a very wide butchers knife even in a professional kitchen. You can also get by with a bit thinner finished billet thickness. Most butcher knives are barely over .060-.080" thick.

Do you really mean butcher's knife, or do you plan on making a Chef's knife?

That forge temp sounds oddly low. It is barely within the forging temps of steel ( 1600-2100F). Sounds like a gas HT (heat treatment) oven, or possibly one for doing ornamental iron work where you just get it red and bend/twist to shape. If it is HT oven, that may allow you to harden the blade with the help of your shop teacher ( depending on the steel used).

What you plan on doing is called "stock removal" which means you will cut/grind/sand the blade to shape instead of forge it. The vast majority of knives are made this way.

Damascus is not the best material for a butcher knife. These knives are all about cutting and edge retention. Damascus is pretty, but the cutting is not as good as a mono-steel. I specialize in cutlery for chefs, and know about what cuts and what doesn't. Also, carbon damascus is not a good kitchen knife steel as far as rust and corrosion go. I use stainless damascus for some knives ( which is really expensive), but a good stainless steel like CPM154, CPM S35VN,440C, or 52100, 15N20, 1095 in carbon steels is what you want for a kitchen knife....especially when getting started. When you want the look of damascus with the cutting ability of good steel you use what is called san-mai ( that means three-layer in Japanese). This is a core steel in the middle of the blade ( I like 52100) with damascus on the outer sides. It can also be made in stainless san-mai by the pros, but that is also quite expensive.

The materials and equipment to make a damascus billet, as well as the necessary experience are far beyond your current level.

Start simple and work up to fancy and complex. Get some basic kitchen knife steel and shape the blade using hacksaws, files, sandpaper, and elbow grease ( and old term for hand power). Go slow and as questions often. Your shop teacher may be able to help, and many here will gladly offer advise to your questions. Photos and sketches are invaluable, so post them when asking.
I would suggest using 15N20 in about .090-.100" thickness. I bet someone on this forum will send you the steel if you start a new thread about the knife build you plan with drawings and questions. Even better, they may cut the blank to your drawing dimensions for you.
 
Thanks very much for all that, wasn't expecting so much! Im not every experienced with the different kinds of metals yet, i have been trying to keep track of what is what, but there is a lot to take in.

The forge is usually used for just that, heat treatment. Quite sad i cant do what i wanted, but i am not complaining.

As for the metals and cutting it out, this shop has a CNC plasma cutter (Run from a computer) and a hand Plasma cutter. Along with a heat treatment oven, the forge, the forge in the ground used to melt metal (Not sure of the official name), almost 1 of every tool, belt sander, grinders, welders, and the list goes on.

As for the price changes on the width, that is quite a change. I might just be able to afford one with that new information, but i will however send an PM to Mike, and see what he can do.

We raise rabbits here, so i wanted to make a butchers knife as a gift since we do not own one. Wanted to add in the design because i think it looks amazing, but i see what you mean by rust and the carbon. Ill see if we have any in-stock of the metals you mentioned above.

Thanks very much for the help!

*Edit* Im unable to PM Mike due to insufficient permissions, and i don't see an email to contact him at. Would someone be able to drop him a message with my email please? Would love to see if we can work out a price. dionalias@hotmail.com
 
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