Damascus, wootz, and bears, oh my!

VENI VIDI VICI

VENI VIDI VICI

Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
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Hey all, I'm not quite sure if this will make any sense, but here we go;

recently I have fallen in love with Damascus steel, and being a noob I thought I could just search for a list of known patterns on Google (before I really understood the vastness of damascus steel makers, or even how your basic pattern is made) which launched me head first into patterns I couldn't even wrap my head around (mosaic damascus with little skulls and other highly intentional, seemingly drawn on images) and I wanted to learn how they did this, I only found a few vids on your basic damascus (the random kind, well, the watery looking pattern.)
after watching the John Neeman's "birth of a tool part 3" I was officially hooked on the stuff.

back to the point :o can you guys help compile a list (pics too) of known damascus (or wootz) patterns?
to start this off, here is my favorite pattern I've seen so far; Devin Thomas' Spirograph

I would also like any knowledge of Damascus making in general, what techniques are used to alter specific aspects of the pattern,
Thanks!
 
I'm sure there are lots of sources to look at pics of unique Damascus ..... this thread on the CRK forum is a good place to start! Enjoy ..... I love Damascus as well.
 
VENI VIDI VICI said:
Hey all, I'm not quite sure if this will make any sense, but here we go;

recently I have fallen in love with Damascus steel, and being a noob I thought I could just search for a list of known patterns on Google (before I really understood the vastness of damascus steel makers, or even how your basic pattern is made) which launched me head first into patterns I couldn't even wrap my head around (mosaic damascus with little skulls and other highly intentional, seemingly drawn on images) and I wanted to learn how they did this, I only found a few vids on your basic damascus (the random kind, well, the watery looking pattern.)
after watching the John Neeman's "birth of a tool part 3" I was officially hooked on the stuff.

back to the point :o can you guys help compile a list (pics too) of known damascus (or wootz) patterns?
to start this off, here is my favorite pattern I've seen so far; Devin Thomas' Spirograph

I would also like any knowledge of Damascus making in general, what techniques are used to alter specific aspects of the pattern,
Thanks!
Click to expand...

Well what we call Damascus today it totally different that Wootz...totally. Modern Damascus is an etched pattern weld of differnt steels sandwiched together in a bunch of different ways (twisted alternated with folded...you name it). Wootz is a steel that forms a visibly grainy pattern. Most experts (of which I am NOT one) believe that Wootz or something similar is what the Crusaders called Damascus. That steel was a product of India and Persia, not the modern day area of Syria. They called it Damascus because they found it there, having been traded westward from Persia and India via the Silk Road. So that very geometric pattern you illustrate is not Wootz at all but a twisted pattern weld of some sort.
 
HoosierQ said:
Well what we call Damascus today it totally different that Wootz...totally. Modern Damascus is an etched pattern weld of differnt steels sandwiched together in a bunch of different ways (twisted alternated with folded...you name it). Wootz is a steel that forms a visibly grainy pattern. Most experts (of which I am NOT one) believe that Wootz or something similar is what the Crusaders called Damascus. That steel was a product of India and Persia, not the modern day area of Syria. They called it Damascus because they found it there, having been traded westward from Persia and India via the Silk Road. So that very geometric pattern you illustrate is not Wootz at all but a twisted pattern weld of some sort.
Click to expand...
oh, so wootz is a type of steel? like its the composition that gives it the pattern?
interesting...
 
I haven't really been into damascus much yet, I have seen a few paterns that were appealing but then I found the river of fire damascus that CRK used. To me its the best looking out of everything else Ive seen and its my goal to have one at some point. There is a user here on the forums that posted he completed his set with a large Seb, small seb and Mnandi all with the same inlays and river of fire blades.
 
I've heard some outlandish stuff about real Damascus, even things like it was found in meteorites and as such had extremely limited quantities. Whether stories like that are true or not, the secrets of making it have been lost in time. However, the damascus we see today can be incredibly strong, given the right choice of steels.
 
John VerHoven and Al Pendray are arguably the best source of
information on modern wootz. Lots of smiths are developing crucible
dendritic steel. I really think the "lost" process has been rediscovered.


Bill
 
Look through some of the backwoods knives threads, bill has a few interesting patterns that go well with the insane woods he uses.
 
Here is a wootz steel. Obviously you can see that a lot of "modern Damascus" steel makers are going for this effect. Other go for more dramatic, artful effects like the one shown above. Here this steel has formed with this grain pattern in a single material. With modern Damascus, two or more kinds of steel are sandwiched together and then smithed in an almost infinite variety of ways to form patterns...some that look a lot like this. Roselli knives of Finland has a Wootz-like offering they call "UHC". It is very fine grained but the grain is visible to the nake eye.

Wootz_001_zps7b6a88c2.jpg
 
Here is a question on SS damascus: why does some need to be dunked in acid to show the pattern. Here are two different examples: the first, a spyderco Caly 3, damascus source unknown. The second is a Boker "fellow" using Devon Thomas damascus basket weave pattern. Wouldn't the pattern show without acid dunking? Both are stainless steel, not high carbon.

IMG_0045_zps84cfe76e.jpg

IMG_0104_zps828d1bde.jpg
 
I have to agree... Damascus is very beautiful. Been tryin to find a skyline with Damascus for a while! Haha sorry I can't help much, but good luck in your findings
 
Locutus D'Borg said:
Here is a question on SS damascus: why does some need to be dunked in acid to show the pattern. Here are two different examples: the first, a spyderco Caly 3, damascus source unknown. The second is a Boker "fellow" using Devon Thomas damascus basket weave pattern. Wouldn't the pattern show without acid dunking? Both are stainless steel, not high carbon.

IMG_0045_zps84cfe76e.jpg

IMG_0104_zps828d1bde.jpg
Click to expand...

Its because damascus steel without being etched is too bland, (the pattern is hardly even there) since different steels react at different speeds to acid, one steel will corrode faster than the other, leaving a microscopic height difference between the steels, adding to the visual aspect.
But i think if you mixed a high carbon steel with a stainless, you could probably patina the high carbon and achieve a similar effect.
 
Locutus D'Borg said:
Here is a question on SS damascus: why does some need to be dunked in acid to show the pattern. Here are two different examples: the first, a spyderco Caly 3, damascus source unknown. The second is a Boker "fellow" using Devon Thomas damascus basket weave pattern. Wouldn't the pattern show without acid dunking? Both are stainless steel, not high carbon.
Click to expand...

Your Caly is actually laminated steel from Aogami. The outer damascus layers are non-stainless, while the inner layer is stainless VG-10. Look at the spine and you can see the 3 layers.

I don't think they have to be acid etched to show the pattern, it just makes it more dramatic. Take a look at this Mcusta damascus blade, for example. The pattern is there but much more subdued.

MCU171D.jpg
 
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