damascus

S

Seb

Joined
Oct 1, 2000
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188
I have some questions regarding damascus.
1. Many damascus blades out there seem to be made in "sandwich" style, i.e. center stainless steel, on the sides layers of damascus. are there any blades that are made pureley of damascus? os the sandwich style used to make the knife cheaper or to give the blade better edge holding? or just for the look?
2. From what I have heard, damascus quality ranges from "very poor to quite good" how good can a damascus blade be?
3. what is your favourite damascus knife?

thanks in advance
Seb
 
Seb, some Big questions. The answers are much more complex than I think you realize. Here is a quick response.

1. The sandwich type construction is known as 'san mai', which are the Japanese words for three layers. This type of construction was used in some swords to save precious materials. But this construction is also used to impart really good functional and aesthetics properties. By using a hard tool steel core which will be the edge of the blade, decorative types of patterns can be used on the outside without compromising blade performance. Softer materials can be used to provide flexibility.

Most damscus blades are pattern welded steel through and through, and are not made in the 'san mai' style.

2. Damascus, or pattern welded steel, is generally thought to be no better in performance than the harder of the two steels used in its construction. It is mostly valued for its aesthetics (the look), but some do claim performance benifits from certain types of damascus. Like all blades, how it is heat-treated will be the most important determinate of performance as a knife.

3. My favorite damascus knife? There are too many available to give any one answer. I have several that I love because each is very different. And I see damascus knives that take my breath away (like the large Persian folder that Jerry Rados had at the NYCKS) all the time.

If you mean production damascus blades, I have not seen many that I like.

Paracelsus, giving a quick answer. I am sure others will want to embellish or enhance this discussion.
 
Oh, another thing. I have never heard of anyone making san mai damascus blades with a center core of 'stainless steel'. To the contrary, some blades are made with tool steel cores and clad with stainless damascus.

Most pattern welded steel is made from two different 'carbon' steels that do not have enough chromium in them to make them stainless. There are a couple of makers of 'stainless' damascus (e.g Devin Thomas and the company AB Damasteel in Sweden) steels. Stainless damascus steels are not normally as good in the edge holding department as carbon steel damascus.

You are quite correct in asking if all damascus is good. Some makers produce much better damascus than others. Some makers concentrate almost exclusively on their forge work (Devin Thomas, Robert Eggerling, Darrel Meir, etc), and rarely actually make knives, preferring to sell their steel to stock removal artists.

I could go on for hours about Damascus steel.
You might enjoy looking at Ed Caffrey's and Don Fogg's web sites for more information about pattern welded steels and their purpose and construction.

Para

[This message has been edited by Paracelsus (edited 11-24-2000).]
 
Para,

I was talking to Phil Wilson a year or so ago, and I remember him saying that Devon Thomas was working on 420V for use in the middle of San Mai.

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Thank you,
Marion David Poff aka Eye, Cd'A ID, USA mdpoff@hotmail.com

>>--->Bill Siegle Custom Knives<---<<
-http://www.geocities.com/siegleknives-

Talonite Resource Page, nearly exhaustive!!

Fire Page, metal match sources and index of information.

"We will either find a way, or make one." Hannibal, 210 B.C.
 
Ok, so now I have heard about using 'stainless' for the middle part of a san mai blade. Thanks Marion!
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Para as usual you gave a thourogh answer and havent left me anything to add.
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Arthur D. Washburn
ADW Custom Knives
Production Manager for Devin Thomas Damascus
 
I just though I'd throw in the comment that I love Greg Lightfoot's damascus folders.

I personally own a couple damascus knives, and it is really a matter of taste because the patterns differ so much.

There are even damascus knives that feature pictures in the steel. Very expensive stuff, though. Oh, and I have to say that I also really like Darryl Ralph and Chris Reeve damascus too, but there are countless others.
 
A small point, Darrel Ralph makes his own damascus steel, Chris Reeve knives and Greg Lightfoot use others damascus steel. Most stock removal makers are buying other makers damascus barstock. Members of the ABS in general make their own damascus for their own knives.
 
Originally posted by Paracelsus:
Oh, another thing. I have never heard of anyone making san mai damascus blades with a center core of 'stainless steel'. To the contrary, some blades are made with tool steel cores and clad with stainless damascus.
Click to expand...

The Cold Steel Imperial Tai Pan touts a stainless core. Could this be a typo, or just a bad idea?
confused.gif

 
The words Cold Steel and $1000 dollars never seemed to go together either
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I dunno, maybe this is done more often than I realized. But I could not understand cladding a stainless core with non-stainless exterior damascus. Is the CS knife all stainless steel?

Few makers trouble themselves to make stainless damascus, however. And Beowulf tells me it is much harder to make than regular damscus, and there are a couple of 'secrets' to doing it well.

Paracelsus, always learning new things
 
Hi there, Japaneese woodworking tools offer among other very nice things a series of kitchen knives (santoku & more) with a VG-10 inner steel and 16 layers (each side)of decorative stainless on the outside.
Nice to look at, somewhen I'll order one...
Happy sharpening
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D.T. UTZINGER
 
seb i dontget on the forum mutch but the reason some damascus blades are sanmaied is they have forge welded a mosiac sq. or rather 4 or 5 pieces on each side of piece of steel i make most of mine in a 4 inch sq. tube any more i dont know what some of the others makers use but i have been using 1084 and L6 for 15 years

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All that is not Given Is Lost
 
Seb- Dave Ellis here, whatup? Damascus steel can be superior and it can be a total bust, there are many factors including carbon migration, time in the forge and many other variables that affect the final product. Typically when a maker San- Mai's Damascus it is as Mr. Weinand said, the outer core is a mosaic type steel that really is not suitable for a cutting edge thus another layer of "cutting steel or damascus" is inserted between the two layers of mosaic and welded so the edge is a different steel then the sides making a pretty knife that cut's well. You can see some general info on my site http://www.mastersmith.com

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