Dangers of buying Cheap Knives

iwasntreallyathome · Jun 25, 2012

Hello guys,

I recently started reading, participating in the forum, buying and learning about knives. So there are many doubts in my newbie mind

I bought a S&W neck knife for about $4, tactical SWAT bla bla bla, but there is one thing: It was from Deal Extreme (chinese gadget site, if you don't know it).
Then the questions started popping up:
why did I do that? (this one is easy, here in Brazil the taxes makes any knife absurdly overpriced, WHERE I IN FACT CAN buy a knife, to begin with).
What are the dangers of buying such knives? if they really are counterfeit...
how can I know I can trust the steel?
how can I test such a knife?
how can I get a real knife, without paying 5~10 times the original US/EU price? (THAT would be awesome

)

So, if you can help me answer these questions, I would very very much appreciate it.
Thanks
Guilherme

Edit:

I also noticed that I posted this thread in the wrong space... need to move it to the right forum, but can't do that.

Grease · Jun 25, 2012

Yep, wrong place

But that won't prevent a few good answers anyways.

iwasntreallyathome said:
What are the dangers of buying such knives? if they really are counterfeit...

Chinese knifes aren't always heat treated properly, and the steels used are rarely high end knife steels (440c is probably the common Chinese clone steel). Depending on where yours was made, it might be a great knife, or a great paperweight.

iwasntreallyathome said:
how can I know I can trust the steel?

I'm not sure you want to trust the steel in a clone - not without testing it, at least.

iwasntreallyathome said:
how can I test such a knife?

Put it through it's paces. Chop, cut and stab stuff with it, and see how it stands up to the abuse.

iwasntreallyathome said:
how can I get a real knife, without paying 5~10 times the original US/EU price? (THAT would be awesome )

Know anyone who ever visits the US/EU? It's not unheard of to have someone buy a knife and bring it back for you.

You could even have someone here buy one and ship it to you.

midnight flyer · Jun 25, 2012

Be careful when you buy from direct exporters such as Deal Extreme. The actually sell some good stuff, but they represent 100s of factories in China. They sell knock offs of knock offs. There is no quality control by DE, nor none implied. They are simply a store front for manufacturers.

Although I am pretty tight fisted, I would be more inclined to buy from a friendly dealer that would ship to you, or even eat a few more dollars to get an authentic piece of gear from a trusted brand name manufacturer.

Being cheap hasn't always been cheap for me, and in some cases I have learned the hard way.

Robert

iwasntreallyathome · Jun 26, 2012

So, I am going to test it...
I also bought others, with wich I want to do the same testings, but this is the one that seems more poorly constructed.
Maybe not poorly constructed in the straight sense, I don't know, it is too light, somehow feels the steel won't make it. :thumbdn:

Anyways, thank you, I will see if I can talk to someone abroad who can send me a package, or bring me one or two.

Being cheap hasn't always been cheap for me, and in some cases I have learned the hard way.

Yeah, I know... how we say here, "The cheap comes out expensive". I guess I will be more careful, the cheapest are cheaper for a reason.
Thanks a lot!
Guilherme

Chris "Anagarika" · Jun 26, 2012

Checkout the SRM/Bee/Navy thread under Review subforum. Lots of good info there

HoosierQ · Jun 26, 2012

That's the thing about China. They are more than capable of doing some fantastic metallurgy. Witness an item you can't get in the USA...the Chinese Norinco knockoff of the Colt 1911. Fit and finish is fair to poor, barrels are kind of sad, but the metallurgy in the slides and frames are so good that may custom 1911 makers prefer to base their custom jobs off of these low cost Chinese knockoffs...just because the metallurgy on slide and frame is so good.

So the problem with Chinese export goods is consistency. You could get a knife made of a decent enough 440 steel, that happened to get a spot on heat treatment and bingo...great blade...as good as anybody's. The exact same model might be some sort of crappy 420 full of sulfur with a bad heat treat and it won't do anything.

Same goes, except way worse, for Pakistan. There you do get consistency...consistently bad. However, buy some accounts anyway, steel was actually invented in the Indus valley (opinions will vary on this) where Pakistan is today. Damascus steel likewise came from the same area (the crusaders called it Damascus because they encountered it in Syria but it was made in India and what is today Pakistan and Nepal etc). There is probably some old guy crouching in his 10 generation old smith's workshop is Quetta or someplace making fantastic knives out of old leaf springs but whether you'll ever see one is a total crap shoot.

So don't count China out. I stay away from Chinese stuff because I am not a gambler and because I can get stuff from anywhere.

unky_gumbi · Jun 26, 2012

Are all knives grossly over taxed in Brazil or are it only ones from the USA and Europe? Look into it and see if it is just import tariffs that are being added to the price. If it is see what countries Brazil has good trade policies with and lower tariffs. Here in Canada tariffs are based on point of manufacture not purchase so look at where its made not where its coming from.

I will probably take flak for this, but I am sure there are some reputable makers in China, you will just have to dig through the mountains of rubble to find them and the prices will rise with the quality.

iwasntreallyathome said:
Hello guys,

I recently started reading, participating in the forum, buying and learning about knives. So there are many doubts in my newbie mind
I bought a S&W neck knife for about $4, tactical SWAT bla bla bla, but there is one thing: It was from Deal Extreme (chinese gadget site, if you don't know it).
Then the questions started popping up:
why did I do that? (this one is easy, here in Brazil the taxes makes any knife absurdly overpriced, WHERE I IN FACT CAN buy a knife, to begin with).
What are the dangers of buying such knives? if they really are counterfeit...
how can I know I can trust the steel?
how can I test such a knife?
how can I get a real knife, without paying 5~10 times the original US/EU price? (THAT would be awesome )

So, if you can help me answer these questions, I would very very much appreciate it.
Thanks
Guilherme

Edit:
I also noticed that I posted this thread in the wrong space... need to move it to the right forum, but can't do that.

Habbekuk · Jun 26, 2012

I would suggest to stay away from dealextreme, tried a few knives there and all were junk.
If you want chinese knives I have good experiences with SanRenMu, Bee and Enlan.
I also have a Tramontina fixed blade knife I bought in Brazil 14 years ago. It is the Amazonas model, bladeshape reminds me of the Buck 119. Fairly good steel for a reasonable price. I do not know if that is still made.

Kai Winters · Jun 26, 2012

I think the axiom "you get what you pay for" works well with this thread as well as most everything we buy.
I'd not expect a $4 knife to stand up to the abuse, nor last as long, etc. as a more expensive knife. My reasoning is the cheap knife is probably not well made nor made of quality materials meaning it will not hold up to hard use. That does not mean I won't use a knife like that. I'd use a knife like that to cut through bags of mulch, jab into the ground if it is the only tool handy, etc. Chores that will trash a knife but not so extreme that I could get injured by the knife failing.

I buy clothes in the same way. For work, working on my car, yard work, etc. I buy t-shirts at the local Salvation Army. Nearly new shirts for $1.50. Perfect for the chores I've described. I buy hard use pants at the local military supply store. Army BDU's for $10 a pair that are nearly new. Hard wear pants for little money. If I need a pair of work shorts the pants get cut down and hemmed...

I'd not put my life in the hands of a $4 knife nor would I wear a worn pair of BDU's and an old t-shirt to a wedding but used properly in the proper context they are valuable and useful.

GatorFlash1 · Jun 26, 2012

If I were you this is what I'd do. I'd look for a nice used knife (hopefully they don't tax this too much) from a good manufacturer (see forums for various manufacturer) and try it. If it isn't for you then resell it. You can try different reputable knives that way without laying out a lot of money.

LLFFMM · Jun 26, 2012

iwasntreallyathome said:
Hello guys,

I recently started reading, participating in the forum, buying and learning about knives. So there are many doubts in my newbie mind
I bought a S&W neck knife for about $4, tactical SWAT bla bla bla, but there is one thing: It was from Deal Extreme (chinese gadget site, if you don't know it).
Then the questions started popping up:
why did I do that? (this one is easy, here in Brazil the taxes makes any knife absurdly overpriced, WHERE I IN FACT CAN buy a knife, to begin with).
What are the dangers of buying such knives? if they really are counterfeit...
how can I know I can trust the steel?
how can I test such a knife?
how can I get a real knife, without paying 5~10 times the original US/EU price? (THAT would be awesome )

So, if you can help me answer these questions, I would very very much appreciate it.
Thanks
Guilherme

Edit:
I also noticed that I posted this thread in the wrong space... need to move it to the right forum, but can't do that.

Finalmente um brasileiro.... Em relação a sua situação, lhe dou uma dica, essas facas que vemos em sites não é bom confiar, como um pessoal aqui falou, eu recomendo vc comprar lá fora, ou até mesmo comprar facas de marcas nacionais, muitas vezes nao sao tão boas, mas são melhores que essas desse tipo que vc ta falando. Enfim, bom falar um pouco de português aqui

Abs,
Luis.

LLFFMM · Jun 26, 2012

That unfortunatelly is, if not, almost impossible to find here, and if you do, a benchmade(e.g.) would be absurdly overpriced, I mean I could buy a freaking busse with the money... But what can you do... taxes...

shecky · Jun 26, 2012

Cheap comes in different levels of quality. The remarkable thing is that the price level for good knives has fallen through the floor. It's entirely possible to get a very good knife for under $10 USD. It's entirely possible to get a pretty crappy knife in that price range, too, if you don't know what to look for.

I wouldn't trust any brand name knives found on Dealextreme to be genuine. I've seen stuff there branded Boker, Buck, Cold Steel, etc that were absolutely not genuine. They may be functional knives. But they are counterfeit. They may sell other knives that are reasonable quality. But most of the non counterfeit knives have no reputation to fall back on, so they are a gamble.

There are a couple of brand names that have been consistently less than good quality that I can think of. Meyerco is one that has a recognizable presence, and seems to have an almost completely crappy lineup, in terms of quality. Bear and Son is another name that has a market presence, but seems to disappoint almost always. These are two examples of generally cheap knives, quality wise. Though not necessarily cheap when it comes to price.

iwasntreallyathome · Jun 26, 2012

Habbekuk said:
I would suggest to stay away from dealextreme, tried a few knives there and all were junk.
If you want chinese knives I have good experiences with SanRenMu, Bee and Enlan.
I also have a Tramontina fixed blade knife I bought in Brazil 14 years ago. It is the Amazonas model, bladeshape reminds me of the Buck 119. Fairly good steel for a reasonable price. I do not know if that is still made.

I didn't know any names of chinese manufacturers, gonna take a look at that (if they are really cheaper, otherwise it's the same for me US or China or EU).

Yeah, Tramontina, now that you've mentioned it, is a very good brand.
Here especially in our state of Rio Grande do Sul, where it comes from, we use tons of Tramontina products. Their reputation is great, their products are great. Their main products are kitchenware, actually. I have a amazonas knife, but it is shaped differently. It's a good knife. My edc is a tramontina too, and it's shaped exactly like a Winchester Lockback folder.

iwasntreallyathome · Jun 26, 2012

GatorFlash1 said:
If I were you this is what I'd do. I'd look for a nice used knife (hopefully they don't tax this too much) from a good manufacturer (see forums for various manufacturer) and try it. If it isn't for you then resell it. You can try different reputable knives that way without laying out a lot of money.

Sounds fair... so there ARE options! hahah
thanks

iwasntreallyathome · Jun 26, 2012

LLFFMM said:
Finalmente um brasileiro.... Em relação a sua situação, lhe dou uma dica, essas facas que vemos em sites não é bom confiar, como um pessoal aqui falou, eu recomendo vc comprar lá fora, ou até mesmo comprar facas de marcas nacionais, muitas vezes nao sao tão boas, mas são melhores que essas desse tipo que vc ta falando. Enfim, bom falar um pouco de português aqui
Abs,
Luis.

Ei, Luis, eu estava mesmo me perguntando quando ia encontrar um brasileiro por aqui! :thumbup:
Pois é, o problema é que não sei onde poderia encontrar boas facas por aqui, ou quais marcas brasileiras são boas.
Nem sei quais marcas existem! Só conheço a Tramontina mesmo. hehehe
Mas, se puder me ajudar, é basicamente isso.
Aqui na minha cidade tem duas lojas de caça que quero ir ainda essa semana para dar uma olhada, mas não imagino que tipo de coisas vou encontrar (ou por que preços!).

Abraço
Guilherme

GIRLYmann · Jun 27, 2012

years ago i had bought a S&W HRT magnesium folder.
but really, it was a taylor cutlery chinese import etched with a licensed brand name.
http://www.taylorbrandsllc.com/index.php?page=smith-wesson-news
i can confirm that the edge holding on mine sucked big time.
no matter how many times i tried to hone a decent edge,
i ended up with a real dull time.
awfully soft steel, perhaps no heat treatment???
well, that's the first n last for me....
i can't rightly say how production quality and standards are today though.

GatorFlash1 · Jun 27, 2012

iwasntreallyathome said:
Sounds fair... so there ARE options! hahah
thanks

There are ALWAYS options to everything and anything. You just have to find them.