DannyinJapan - What do Japanese think about us?

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I talked with a friend's German wife. She is about 45 YO. Grew up in Germany. I asked her what the German schools had to say about Hitler. She told me that she had learned almost nothing about Hitler in Germany. Just was not mentioned in public schools.

I was wondering what the Japanese think about Pearl Harbor? Do they think it was a 'sneak attack?' Do they think that the story in "Tora, Tora, Tora" was factual? That they tried to declare war on us, but the State Department did not believe their representatives?

What about our use of the atom bomb? What about the US being the first to ever defeat Japan?

Just curious
 
What do Japanese think about Americans? - We are as different as people can be. Japanese relate much more to Europeans, especially the British.
They wear our clothes, watch our movies, talk on our phones, eat our KFC, and use our Windows XP, but when they see a white man on the street, they stare and say "Oh! Gaijin da!"
(I dont like that)
They have a very fXXXking nasty habit of repeating the very fXXXking nasty lies that are broadcast about America on TV here. They dont think about what they say much, because they are all so much a like and they dont have a tradition of correcting or challenging each other in public. (But I do)
(When an English teacher said "America is very dangerous" in front of my students, I got mad and yelled at him. "Dont you ever say that again." I said.
He had never been to America.
The Principal, a smart guy, reprimanded him privately, I am led to understand.

I dont think they mean to insult us as much as they do, but it IS insulting nonetheless.
They are guilty of mindlessness. Very guilty.


Pearl Harbor - Takako says they know they made a mistake. She says the Japanese armed forces claim that the government told them that they had declared war officially. Which of course, they did not.
The Armed forces basically say that they wouldnt have done it if they knew the government had not officially declared war.
I believe this, having seen the bureaucratic circus that runs this country up close and personal.
Many Japanese want to believe that the Hull document exculpates them, but that's because they mostly dont speak English well enough to really understand the Hull document.
There is a blame game going on here.

Yasukuni shrine is not run by the government, it is run by some local school board or maybe even a private orgnization. Hence, the "struggle for japans survival" explanation for Pearl Harbor is not necessarily the official Japanese governments explanation.

This place is anything BUT organized. The government is a circus of local bureacracies that think they can do pretty much whatever they want.
They dont ask questions first before they make some pretty big, pretty public, pretty insulting, inflammatory statements.
(Such as a local bureacracies' decision to annex islands claimed by Korea recently, this is the kind of thing that could start a war, but it wasnt a Tokyo Prime Minister kind of thing, it was a local governor kind of thing...)


The Atom Bomb - They commiserate yearly on the anniversary and have all these sad tales they love to recount about people who survived, especially some girl who thought if she could make 10,000 origami cranes that she would survive her radiation sickness. She did not.
Yes it was horrible, yes it was brutal.
Yes, they started it and bear the responsibility for it.
The problem is, they dont seem to remember anything that happened BEFORE the bomb dropped.
Like it was just some strange accident.
Theres no clear causality in their minds. When hard pressed, they know.

There was a poll not too long ago where 65% of Japanese said that they were glad that Japan lost the war.

The truth is hard to get at. Most of them only know what they see on TV, which is about as bad as TV can be. (It is 24 hours a day propoganda, psychotic childrens cartoons, soft-core porno and The A-Team in Japanese)

I cant answer these questions for the Japanese, but if imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, then America should be flattered. The Japanese try to copy us as much as they can, even having fake Christian weddings.
(even saying the words in English)

The average Japanese person is not interested in history. They dont care.
The majority of people really interested in the Samurai are Westerners.
The funny thing is that the Japanese cant seem to understand that we arent like them. They think we like what they like and nothing could be further from the truth.

The biggest and most beautiful hotals in Tokyo are awlays desgined by foreigners. The investors know that Japanese designers will fill it with aluminum and florescent lighting.

They tore down all the samurai houses so that they could build copies of American theme parks.
Trouble is, Americans arent going to fly to Japan to see a theme park just like the one back home, they wanted to see samurai houses.

I dont think they are bad people, I dont think they hate us. They are just mindless and speak without thinking too much.
Also, the right wingers are keeping in office by running on increasingly anti-foreign party platforms.

I dont know where this place is headed.
 
DannyinJapan - What do Japanese think about us?

Very informative Danny.
Thank you!!
 
I am currently reading "The Rape of Nanking" by Iris Chang, about Japanese atrocities in the Sino-Japanese Wars and WW2. Even taking it with a grain of salt, their emperor and military needed the beating we gave them, and their remaining nationalists are troubling. And we screwed up by letting their war criminals off the hook, they needed a scourging like Nuremburg. Bataan and Unit 731 (their version of Mengele testing on POWs) are just the tip of iceberg. I harbor no emnity toward the Japanese people, but their culture of forgetfulness of their own past could be dangerous in the future, if they get a nationalist movement again (as we are seeing in Russia).
As always Danny, thanks for your insights. A friend of mine just joined the JET program and is moving to Niigata. I hope to visit him next year.
 
DannyinJapan said:
I dont think they are bad people, I dont think they hate us. They are just mindless and speak without thinking too much.
Also, the right wingers are keeping in office by running on increasingly anti-foreign party platforms.

I dont know where this place is headed.

That's almost verbatim what a European friend of mine said about the US. :eek:
 
Cabbit said:
That's almost verbatim what a European friend of mine said about the US. :eek:

I think that's a perennial truth, like:
- The stuff kids listen to isn't music, it's just noise.
- Things were so much cheaper when I was a kid.
- The weather has been really weird this year.
etc.

(Note to younger folks, just turn the kid remarks around to something about how the elderly just don't understand stuff.)
 
I dont make sweeping generalizations about people I dont really know.
I wasnt just complaining.
I can provide many concrete examples for everything I have said.
It is all specific and concrete.

Every European person I know likes to say "All Americans do this " and "Americans like that."
That is an unfortunate habit amongst European people and not an endearing one.

My Australian buddies dont do that too much, but the European guys sure do.
To me, it is a sign of ignorance...
 
Bill Marsh said:
I talked with a friend's German wife. She is about 45 YO. Grew up in Germany. I asked her what the German schools had to say about Hitler. She told me that she had learned almost nothing about Hitler in Germany. Just was not mentioned in public schools.

I can tell you that this has changed very much. I teach history and German literature at a Grammar school. Many teachers of the generation that taught your friend´s wife were "personally involved" and many tried to avoid the topic. Some really seemed to need to talk about the war - but not many tried to explain Hitler (a really difficult bunch of causes). This has changed in the 70s I guess. It is very much a topic at the schools now, at Grammar school you learn about the Third Reich in the 9th and the 12/13th grade (so two times), and the two othe major types of schools teach it at least once in the 8th resp. 9th grade. Unfortunately the ones that would need it most to learn about this mass-murderer try to avoid to go to school or learn something... The children with a limited background attend schools which focus more and more on educating basic skills and behaviour - and not teach very much any more (sometimes it is a problem of different languages in class - my father teaches at a "Hauptschule" - grades 5-9 and has 12 nationalities in his class, - and some Germans who attend this school cannot write an essay without making 100 mistakes and think the Second World war took place in the 13th century. It is this sort of children who often do not find a job, claim "foreigners" or "asylants" to be the culprits - and have the highest risk to end as neo-nazis, skinheads and xenophobists.
German publicity is very sensitive on this topic, sometimes even over-sensitive. Since there are (thank god) no more Concentration/extermination camps or gulags some try to use ridiculous comparrisons (guantanamo for example - it may be bad, but it is neiter a KZ nor a gulag) to hit their opponents. If someone found out Hitler brushed his teeth regularly some Germans would start to wonder if they could brush their teeth and still be morally/politically/ethically correct.
To fight was a basis-element of the nazi ideology (social darwinism) - so it cannot be good, even as a last measure, regardless of the aim - one of the basic misconceptions of our society.
The problem is that many do not differentiate responsibility and guilt. Some say they are not guilty (and are right with that) and push the whole topic aside especially when it comes to British or French tabloids that "cannot afford new glasses" every sixty years (and still see every German with a swastika stamped on his forehead - see the discussions about pope Benedict XVI). There are not many left who are personally guilty - but the responsibility is there and I think with the Germans it is a greater responsibilty to prevent anything/anyone like Hitler.

Andreas
 
DannyinJapan said:
Every European person I know likes to say "All Americans do this " and "Americans like that."

those stereotypes seem to exist for most nations. believe me there are enough who tell you how Italians, Germans and French are - all of them - or just make it "every European" :D. Just look over to Whine & Cheese.
Italians are noisy, French are arrogant and cowardly, Germans are nazis etc.
It often reliefs people whol like to think in simple ways.
btw. all Americans I know are khukuri-nuts :) (no, not really, but the majority of them - it is you here on the forum.

Andreas
 
Pan Tau said:
those stereotypes seem to exist for most nations. believe me there are enough who tell you how Italians, Germans and French are - all of them - or just make it "every European" :D.

Andreas
It's regretable but there are ndns who do this very same thing. I keep saying that to us ndns the ndn wars weren't that long ago, same is true of our old enemies among some of the older folks especially.
There are those who say the Creeks are cowardly, the Apache sneaky little sumbeyatchs, the Cherokee this, the Lakota that and ad naseum.:grumpy:

Some of us not so old say similar things and then laugh and wink making a joke of it.
Another age old belief is that we ndns don't have a sense of humor and never laugh, nothing is farther from the truth. That's one thing most all of us have in common, all in all a very fun loving people.
And we'd rather laugh at ourselves than anyone else, generally.;) :rolleyes: :D

I sure do miss Two Dogs being around.:grumpy: :(
 
Yvsa said:
I sure do miss Two Dogs being around.:grumpy: :(

I think he was here, posted on the Uncle Bill / Rusty thread and then hobbled off with his broken ankles. :rolleyes: ;)

Hope he's ok. :(
 
Mr.BadExample said:
I am currently reading "The Rape of Nanking" by Iris Chang, about Japanese atrocities in the Sino-Japanese Wars and WW2.

A while back they found Iris Chang in her car, dead of a gunshot wound to the head. They said it was a suicide. She had recently completed an expose book on the Chinese missile program.

Her last book that she was finishing at the time was about the horrors suffered by American POW's at the hands of the Japanese during WWII.
 
mrostov said:
A while back they found Iris Chang in her car, dead of a gunshot wound to the head. They said it was a suicide. She had recently completed an expose book on the Chinese missile program.

Her last book that she was finishing at the time was about the horrors suffered by American POW's at the hands of the Japanese during WWII.

Really? I hadn't heard that. I had seen her interviewed when the Rape of
Nanking book had come out and had wondered what happened to her.
She seemed young, to bad really.
 
I woudlnt mind aNY of the things I said about Japan if only they had been honest about what this place was really like in movies or TV.
I guess they might have, if you watch Yakuza films...
You know what Japan needs?
The FBI.
They need the FBI and OCB to come in here and clean house. Clean up every office and fine-tooth comb every single govt office and company.
That would change this entire country...
 
I read an article on logging a few years ago that I think (in my admitted ignorance) may sum a bit of the Japanese attitudes towards the rest of the world and the finite resources we all share:

The majority of the world's rare hardwoods are consumed by the Japanese. Their method of logging in places like New Guinea, which has some of the last remaining stands of rare hardwoods of all kinds, is to sail a big ship over there, pull up onto the beach with their version of a huge LST, and then offload big D8 Cats and other equipment. Then they drive the bulldozers into the forest and just knock down the trees, and then rig chokers and drag them down to the beach, load them up and sail off. Kind of makes clearcutting look like careful forest husbandry. Forget replanting. After one forest is stripped, they head for the next one.

A journalist was in one of those Japanese designed neon and plastic hotels Danny mentioned, and walked by an elevator where workman were fixing/installing something. They had cut large sheets of various kinds of hardwoods: teak, ebony, pau ferro, other exotic woods, and were using them to protect the crappy _formica_ sides of the elevator. When they were done servicing all the elevators, they cleaned up and just threw the wood like scrapwood into the garbage bin. Unbelievable...!

Norm
 
Svashtar said:
I read an article on logging a few years ago that I think (in my admitted ignorance) may sum a bit of the Japanese attitudes towards the rest of the world and the finite resources we all share:

The majority of the world's rare hardwoods are consumed by the Japanese. Their method of logging in places like New Guinea, which has some of the last remaining stands of rare hardwoods of all kinds, is to sail a big ship over there, pull up onto the beach with their version of a huge LST, and then offload big D8 Cats and other equipment. Then they drive the bulldozers into the forest and just knock down the trees, and then rig chokers and drag them down to the beach, load them up and sail off. Kind of makes clearcutting look like careful forest husbandry. Forget replanting. After one forest is stripped, they head for the next one.

A journalist was in one of those Japanese designed neon and plastic hotels Danny mentioned, and walked by an elevator where workman were fixing/installing something. They had cut large sheets of various kinds of hardwoods: teak, ebony, pau ferro, other exotic woods, and were using them to protect the crappy _formica_ sides of the elevator. When they were done servicing all the elevators, they cleaned up and just threw the wood like scrapwood into the garbage bin. Unbelievable...!

Norm

Isn't this also the way they fish the oceans?

Danny,
As Always, great story. I learn everytime I read one of your's (and others too) about the REAL Japan.

Mark T.
 
DannyinJapan said:
I woudlnt mind aNY of the things I said about Japan if only they had been honest about what this place was really like in movies or TV.
I guess they might have, if you watch Yakuza films...
You know what Japan needs?
The FBI.
They need the FBI and OCB to come in here and clean house. Clean up every office and fine-tooth comb every single govt office and company.
That would change this entire country...

Now Danny, Don't want you to wind up like Iris Chang, but your insights are valuable to help us better understand.

I have heard that the Big Japanese corporations are run like mafia organizations. That the Yakuza are behind most of the movie making, also the media. Any thoughts on this?

Maybe I watch too much of the incredible series "24" on DVD. Has really got me thinking.....

Also, what is the religious basis of Japan? I wonder how our (USA) Puritanism affects our underlying philiosphy of government.

AND could their imitation of our country be because we were the first to ever defeat them? Or do they just take some of our Americanism and call it Japanese.

I remember a Louisiana governor saying, "When Totalitarianism comes to America, it will be called 'Americanism.'

One more thing. I have foriegn friends who tell me that they are really surprised (except the British) about how we drag our high officials dirty laundry into the spotlight. Do the Japanese do this also?
 
They are not religious.
Their religions are merely for show.
Did your Mom ever say " If all of your friends jumped off a bridge, would you jump too?"
Well, the answer is supposed to be no.
In Japan the answer is yes.
Not only yes, but thats how they determine the rightness of an idea. Morality as well. If you dont jump then you are a bad person.

Everybody is a gangster here, to a certain extent.

Japan tries to copy America, but they dont try to keep current about it. They are trying to copy us as we were in 1952. (During the occupation)

Dirty laundry? Oh hell no. Not on your life. Hell, the police have to take classes on how to cover up embarrassing situations.

The Soviets never even came close to this degree of control...
 
Great stuff, Danny.

Bill, I'm curious about this German with whom you spoke. I suppose her age would make a difference. I have known several Germans (Foreign Exchange students) and have traveled to Germany, where I stayed with Germans. They all seemed extremely aware of their history, perhaps better than the average American. Now, German schools spend something like an entire year on WWII history, teaching how wrong they were and how horrible Hitler was. They seem even more convinced of this than the average American. Maybe things have changed since she went to school? Or maybe I just happened to meet the more historically oriented?

Nam
 
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