Darrin Sanders Jim Ankerson Collaberation - Camp Knife / Fighter - CPM 10V - Part 1

[Ankerson]

This is Part 1 of my review, the wood/field type work that the knife would most likely see.

Specs:

Steel - CPM 10V @ 62-63 HRC
Spine thickness .153"
Blade - 6 7/8"
12 1/4" OAL
Weight - 13.1 ounces
1 3/4" blade height
.025" behind the edge
20 degrees per side edge geometry
Handle material - Black canvas micarta

Photo Thread here:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...Jim-Ankerson-Collaberation-Camp-Knife-Fighter


I started off with some chopping, cut some saplings down and smaller trees like this one here.

Then did some whittling.

Followed up with more chopping and splitting.

Some carving here.

Followed by splitting seasoned hardwood full of knots.

Little bite of hardwood carving.

Some drilling through the hardwood.

And cutting through power cord..

Performace was excellent, zero edge issues, no chipping or rolling, edge retention is good as the knife will still slice phone book paper at this stage. Balance is good for lighter chopping as it's a 7" blade and pretty thin spine thickness and 13.1 ounces.

Feels great in hand, didn't wear gloves at all in testing.

 

[sodak]

Nice, I like seeing 10V used in some non-traditional ways in addition to extreme edge retention in abrasive/fibrous cutting. Contrary to other myths, I'll bet it's heat treat and geometry makes it pretty easy to sharpen as well.

 

[Mistwalker]

Looking good Jim! From the sap marks and surface scratches on the blade it looks like all the sweet spots are right where I expected them to be. I love how the edge is so close to the handle and the handle is long enough to counterbalance while feather sticking. It looks like it would be very comfortable to use long term, which isn't easy for a lot of folks to do with knives in this size. It looks like you wonderful job with selecting your compromises in sorting out the different aspects of the functions you wanted from the knife. It looks like a damn fine knife for walking out into the unknown and dealing with whatever may come.

I like the cutting of the copper, doing it repeatedly is a good test of edge toughness. I got some really funny looks from some folks in the Home Depot parking lot in Tampa in 2012 when I was doing the T&E on the A.G. Russell Sand Box Bowie. I went in and bought 4 feet of copper range wire and a section of 2x12, then proceeded to chop the range wire into pieces in the parking lot on the tail gate of my truck. Lol, I had a decent crowd of spectators by the time I was done

 

[Ankerson]

Nice, I like seeing 10V used in some non-traditional ways in addition to extreme edge retention in abrasive/fibrous cutting. Contrary to other myths, I'll bet it's heat treat and geometry makes it pretty easy to sharpen as well.

Yeah, at 62-63 it's not all that hard to sharpen at all and we kept it reasonable behind the edge at .025".

Most folders are .025" behind the edge or so.

10V is very strong, much stronger than most people would believe and I have tested it a lot over the years as you know in different knives.

 

[Ankerson]

Looking good Jim! From the sap marks and surface scratches on the blade it looks like all the sweet spots are right where I expected them to be. I love how the edge is so close to the handle and the handle is long enough to counterbalance while feather sticking. It looks like it would be very comfortable to use long term, which isn't easy for a lot of folks to do with knives in this size. It looks like you wonderful job with selecting your compromises in sorting out the different aspects of the functions you wanted from the knife. It looks like a damn fine knife for walking out into the unknown and dealing with whatever may come.

I like the cutting of the copper, doing it repeatedly is a good test of edge toughness. I got some really funny looks from some folks in the Home Depot parking lot in Tampa in 2012 when I was doing the T&E on the A.G. Russell Sand Box Bowie. I went in and bought 4 feet of copper range wire and a section of 2x12, then proceeded to chop the range wire into pieces in the parking lot on the tail gate of my truck. Lol, I had a decent crowd of spectators by the time I was done

Thanks.

We changed things more than a few times before Darrin started on it, I wanted to make sure that the design would work.

I was very picky about the blade design and I wanted what I wanted and it worked out great.

Bet you had a very large crowd indeed.

I would have been one of them if I was there. :thumbup:

 

[Mistwalker]

Thanks.

We changed things more than a few times before Darrin started on it, I wanted to make sure that the design would work.

I was very picky about the blade design and I wanted what I wanted and it worked out great.

Bet you had a very large crowd indeed.

I would have been one of them if I was there. :thumbup:

Yeah, I know how that goes. It takes some subtle adjustments to get what you want sometimes. I went through field tests with a few prototypes before I was happy with the design that eventually became the 42. That was originally designed to be a TOPS knife but they got busy and Morgan wanted something new so I tweaked a variant for them. I really wanted that one in 5/32 but for the Schrade market I wasn't sure that was a good idea, then as it turned out their handle attachment system doesn't work for that thickness anyway. Working with handmade knife makers usually offers a lot more flexibility and a lot less stress...

I got a few laughs out of doing the tests on that knife. I was initially worried that my editor would say I was taking the knife beyond reasonable expectations. I even thought I was on one hand, yet not so much when considering the target market for the tool. The the heat treat and quench on that DM1 handled it well enough though.

As it turned out the one problem photo was a demonstration of using the tip to bore into a coconut to access fluids for hydration. Apparently that one unsettled the art layout guy by appearing too "violent" and he refused to publish it lmao

 

[Ankerson]

Yeah, I know how that goes. It takes some subtle adjustments to get what you want sometimes. I went through field tests with a few prototypes before I was happy with the design that eventually became the 42. That was originally designed to be a TOPS knife but they got busy and Morgan wanted something new so I tweaked a variant for them. I really wanted that one in 5/32 but for the Schrade market I wasn't sure that was a good idea, then as it turned out their handle attachment system doesn't work for that thickness anyway. Working with handmade knife makers usually offers a lot more flexibility and a lot less stress...

I got a few laughs out of doing the tests on that knife. I was initially worried that my editor would say I was taking the knife beyond reasonable expectations. I even thought I was on one hand, yet not so much when considering the target market for the tool. The the heat treat and quench on that DM1 handled it well enough though.

As it turned out the one problem photo was a demonstration of using the tip to bore into a coconut to access fluids for hydration. Apparently that one unsettled the art layout guy by appearing too "violent" and he refused to publish it lmao

Nice.

I don't see the coconut thing as a problem, it's a good test I think.

Part 2 will see some harder stuff along with cardboard and some rope cutting as well, I pushed it pretty hard already, but I think it can take more.

 

[Mistwalker]

Nice.

I don't see the coconut thing as a problem, it's a good test I think.

Part 2 will see some harder stuff along with cardboard and some rope cutting as well, I pushed it pretty hard already, but I think it can take more.

I didn't expect it to be an issue. Hydration is an important aspect of survival. Seemed like a good area to go into to me...but people can be funny. I think you get where I was coming from with you being a traveled veteran and all. I'm glad someone else out there besides me gets the idea behind it.

I think it should do well at the rope cutting, at that hardness the abrasion resistance should be great, and with those angles the edge should be really sweet. The debate about the super steels versus the old reliables can rage on all it wants, it's all opinions anyway. My opinion is that I am glad to see a point where impressive durability in hard use doesn't have to equate to obtuse and blunt.

 

[Ankerson]

I didn't expect it to be an issue. Hydration is an important aspect of survival. Seemed like a good area to go into to me...but people can be funny. I think you get where I was coming from with you being a traveled veteran and all. I'm glad someone else out there besides me gets the idea behind it.

I think it should do well at the rope cutting, at that hardness the abrasion resistance should be great, and with those angles the edge should be really sweet. The debate about the super steels versus the old reliables can rage on all it wants, it's all opinions anyway. My opinion is that I am glad to see a point where impressive durability in hard use doesn't have to equate to obtuse and blunt.

We used to cut coconuts a lot when I was in.

Not all that worried about the edge retention on rope and cardboard, I have a very good idea what it will do, but I will do it anyway because some will want to see that also.

That old debate will never die or so it seems anyway for various reasons, and yes you are correct that it's mostly opinions.

Never got the obtuse and blunt thing either, but then that is what seems to sell production wise anyway, we wanted to use reasonable geometries based on the intended use of the blade.

If people want a pry bar or something this isn't for them because that's not what it's for. LOL

 

[DeadboxHero]

Awesome review, that's a solid performer, I'm shocked it took no damage from the wire.

 

[Mistwalker]

We used to cut coconuts a lot when I was in.

Not all that worried about the edge retention on rope and cardboard, I have a very good idea what it will do, but I will do it anyway because some will want to see that also.

That old debate will never die or so it seems anyway for various reasons, and yes you are correct that it's mostly opinions.

Never got the obtuse and blunt thing either, but then that is what seems to sell production wise anyway, we wanted to use reasonable geometries based on the intended use of the blade.

If people want a pry bar or something this isn't for them because that's not what it's for. LOL

I have watched several of your tests so I know what you mean there.

I think mainly it sells because the is usually the only choice the people who have to warranty the mass produced knives will offer in a lot of cases. Then a lot of the ones that aren't blunt are fragile...

I had fun studying several sharpened pry bars before I realized I would rather have a knife that cuts and carry another tool for the abusive work. I've had an RMJ Tactical Kestrel in my get home bag for a few years that does pretty well in the abusive role

Awesome review, that's a solid performer, I'm shocked it took no damage from the wire.

I'm really not surprised by that. The data is there on how to make tougher edges with various steels. You just see the better results most often with hand made knife makers. The processes are cost prohibitive to mass production due to the time consumption and painstaking-ness of it. Most factory edge are small hollow grinds done on the outside of a contact wheel even when they are fragile due to overheating they are fragile due to the geometry. In my experiences, most mass produced knife edges are significantly more durable after the geometry of the stock edge is changed by normal sharpening or a re-profile from the outset. These are some of the reasons I go to knife makers I know and trust when it comes to the knives I take to the field and may have to depend on to stay alive. Whether they make the knives one at a time or in small batches, they spend a lot more one on one time with the knife, and painstakingly craft it to what it is supposed to be.

 

[Ankerson]

Awesome review, that's a solid performer, I'm shocked it took no damage from the wire.

No edge damage at all so far.

The wire wasn't that big of a deal for it.

Not done yet so we will see.

 

[Ankerson]

I have watched several of your tests so I know what you mean there.

I think mainly it sells because the is usually the only choice the people who have to warranty the mass produced knives will offer in a lot of cases. Then a lot of the ones that aren't blunt are fragile...

I had fun studying several sharpened pry bars before I realized I would rather have a knife that cuts and carry another tool for the abusive work. I've had an RMJ Tactical Kestrel in my get home bag for a few years that does pretty well in the abusive role




I'm really not surprised by that. The data is there on how to make tougher edges with various steels. You just see the better results most often with hand made knife makers. The processes are cost prohibitive to mass production due to the time consumption and painstaking-ness of it. Most factory edge are small hollow grinds done on the outside of a contact wheel even when they are fragile due to overheating they are fragile due to the geometry. In my experiences, most mass produced knife edges are significantly more durable after the geometry of the stock edge is changed by normal sharpening or a re-profile from the outset. These are some of the reasons I go to knife makers I know and trust when it comes to the knives I take to the field and may have to depend on to stay alive. Whether they make the knives one at a time or in small batches, they spend a lot more one on one time with the knife, and painstakingly craft it to what it is supposed to be.

Tested plenty of those sharpened pry bars too, while some aren't too bad at cutting stuff, most are a tad too thick IMO.

I also have my knives to abuse handy just in case.

 

[DeadboxHero]

I have watched several of your tests so I know what you mean there.

I think mainly it sells because the is usually the only choice the people who have to warranty the mass produced knives will offer in a lot of cases. Then a lot of the ones that aren't blunt are fragile...

I had fun studying several sharpened pry bars before I realized I would rather have a knife that cuts and carry another tool for the abusive work. I've had an RMJ Tactical Kestrel in my get home bag for a few years that does pretty well in the abusive role




I'm really not surprised by that. The data is there on how to make tougher edges with various steels. You just see the better results most often with hand made knife makers. The processes are cost prohibitive to mass production due to the time consumption and painstaking-ness of it. Most factory edge are small hollow grinds done on the outside of a contact wheel even when they are fragile due to overheating they are fragile due to the geometry. In my experiences, most mass produced knife edges are significantly more durable after the geometry of the stock edge is changed by normal sharpening or a re-profile from the outset. These are some of the reasons I go to knife makers I know and trust when it comes to the knives I take to the field and may have to depend on to stay alive. Whether they make the knives one at a time or in small batches, they spend a lot more one on one time with the knife, and painstakingly craft it to what it is supposed to be.

Thanks Brian, Learned something new, I've never owned or used a custom.
I didn't realize there could be such a huge difference.


I look forward to more testing Jim

 

[Ankerson]

Thanks Brian, Learned something new, I've never owned or used a custom.
I didn't realize there could be such a huge difference.


I look forward to more testing Jim

Should be interesting, will be more about CPM 10V and how much it will take before I see edge damage, edge retention on cardboard and rope.

Then I will make a video on the general use.

Darrin has started a list here for those who want one, they will be in CPM 4V.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1380348-Guaging-interest-in-a-run-of-Camp-Fighters

 

[Sal Glesser]

Why the steel change to 4V?

sal

 

[Ankerson]

Why the steel change to 4V?

sal

Hi Sal,

10V was an experiment for Darrin and I to show how well it could do in this type of design/use.

CPM 4V was the plan from the start since we believe it would be better suited for the general users in the type of use the knife would likely see out in the world.

I think 10V is more than strong enough, but we wanted something that would be tougher just in case people wanted to do a lot of battening with it.