Dateline last sunday night

T

TimmyTheTalkingToilet

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I'm hoping that I'm not the only one to watch this. There was a small segment on wilderness survival, it was brief but to the point. Basicly they went into the woods, wandered for a half an hour, then basicly showed how to build a fire, get water out of snow (snow is made of water?), and how to build a couple of signals, (1 smoke, and one on the ground)

It wasn't bad to watch, but I would like something in a little bit more detail.
 
I saw it too. Was way too superficial to be very useful to anyone who had never done anything like that before. The need for a knife, for example, was never mentioned that I can remember.
 
Saw it. The survival expert wore shorts. Even at night, whic I thought odd with all of the snow.

As Matthew pointed out, no knife mentioned at all.

Even more odd - the scenario was "this could happen anytime, anywhere," yet the survival instructor let the reporter use a MFS firestarter. No mention of matches or cigarette lighter, which most of the audience would be familiar with, no information of getting/using the MFS.

Bottom line, not particularly useful to most viewers, IMHO. Good information, but nothing really enforcing it or stitching it together.

Mike
 
I was waiting for this to come up.

I didn't see it (no tv) but have heard all about it.... Only hearsay information... so I can't address any particulars or the instructors skills (I don't even know who it was)

My belief on teaching survival:

I am a firm believer that an instructor leads by example. Survival training is not a game and if not done right... could have a negative outcome for the student. As an instructor I am not there to be your friend (although it is nice if that happens) or to win a beauty contest (I couldn't even if I wanted to...). When I teach I take it very serious....

As an instructor, I practice the skills because I know you are watching me...even when I am not the one giving the lesson. After all... you wouldn't tell you kid: Do as I say, not as I do.

As an instructor, I always consider the safety issues related to the lesson I am teaching and the way I present myself. If I do something that doesn't meet my "five survival essential" guideline... perhaps you will too...

Now back to dateline.... I don't know who the instructor was but I do know he will get a fair amount of business out of the segment and will surely be on many more specials. If he was in shorts and this wasn't addressed properly... I hope that no kids or teens try to follow this example... It is not a good one. IMHO!!!!

Oh yeah, I also envey this individuals marketing skills.

Best to all,

Best,


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Greg Davenport
Simply Survival's Wilderness Survival Forum
Simply Survival's Web Page
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?
 
I noticed that too about the expert, he didn't say anything about knives either, but was carrying one of those red handled Mula (I think) knvies around his neck. Forgetting to mention matches, or a lighter didn't help either.
 
The instructor was Cody Lundin, who was featured last year in Backpacker magazine. He seemed to really know his stuff, in the magazine, they claim that the local Apache tribes hired him to teach their kids Apache skills that the elders don't remember.

Could be marketing, I don't know. At least in the magazine, he stressed the rule of 3's.

 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Greg Davenport:
I should have known... I am surprised he wore boots.
</font>
Click to expand...

I'll take that as a less than enthusiastic endorsement... Do you know this guy? Or of him?

The one thing I found interesting was that he was dressed in shorts and a t-shirt, and also boots with gaitors. I guess he's proud of his thighs. By nightfall, he put on a long sleeve shirt. In both the magazine article and the dateline show, the focus was on the reporter, no mention was made of how the instructor slept, ate, drank, etc.
 
No I don't know Cody. I hear he is a nice guy.

I have seen him teach before... he likes to go around without shoes and wearing a loin cloth When teaching aboriginal skills... this is OK. However, when teaching the masses (those who go into the backcountry for sport) on the art of wilderness survival this is a BAD idea and actually (I said it before) sets a bad example.

Survival begins before you even go into the wilderness. I believe that a big part of survival involves using the 6 Ps:

Proper Prior Preperation Prevents Poor Performance

Once in a survival situation, I would take a very clean approach to survival no matter what my environment. I would use my three step approach:

The Three Step Approach To Wilderness Survival:

I. Stop and recognize the situation for what it is.

II. Identify your "five survival essentials" and prioritize them, in order of importance, for the environment that you are in.

1. Personal Protection (clothing, shelter, fire)
2. Signaling (manmade and improvised)
3. Sustenance (water/food ID and procurement)
4. Travel (with and without a map and compass)
5. Health (mental, traumatic and environmental injuries).

III. Improvise to meet your needs using both your manmade and natural resources.

Understanding that each environment requires me to prioritize my "five essentials" a little differently.

Let me expand on a few issues I took with the article:

Personal Protection...
Since clothes are my first line of personal protection, I would never use my sock to create water..... (this is cute... funny... but not smart!) I would drink the water that is naturally created around the fire and if indeed there were so many birch trees in the area, I'd use the bark as a quick improvised container (I would never risk getting frost bite on my feet).

Also if I was only there with the shirt on my back... I'd recognize that clothing was my first line of personal protection, shelter my second, and fire my third (in most cases, these should be meet in that order)... I would place dry material between the layers of my clothing... increasing my insulation value... I would spend more time making a thermolised natural shelter. In my winter trips, I focus heavily on how to construct various styles of these. For a picture of a thermolised A-freme go <a href="http://www.simply-survival.com/WildLiving1.htm">here</a>

Signaling...
I disagree that a signal is not important early on. No signal = no rescue. I would incorporate a signal into the day (if I had a metal match like the one that suddenly appeared, then I'd have a whistle) and would blow my whistle every five minutes. Perhaps I have a piece of material that could be used as a flag and suspended from a pole high in the air. There are so many quick signals that could be incorporated into my scenario early on.... After all... If I hiked in... who else may be in the area.

I would never light a smoke generator unless rescue was known to be in my area or approaching me. I would recognize the effects clouds and the inversion layer will have on this signal...and that the material used to create the smoke would constantly need replacement. There are so many ways I could signal... I am only limited by my imagination.

I realize that the media industry does edit the segments and indeed these issues may have been addressed and edited... However, I still think the shorts were a bad idea
smile.gif


In closing I'd like to say (general comments...not directed at anyone)...
The most important thing a wilderness survival authority (different from someone who runs a survival school) can teach his/her students is not the skills.... it is how and when to use them. IMHO

Just a few thoughts from Greg...

------------------
Greg Davenport
Simply Survival's Wilderness Survival Forum
Simply Survival's Web Page
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?

[This message has been edited by Greg Davenport (edited 02-08-2001).]
 
In fairness to the Dateline teacher, we have to remember that this IS Dateline we're talking about here, not a survival documentary. Some editor holed away in a dark room is making the decision as to what stays and what goes. for all we know, the guy DID talk about matches, etc, but it was edited out. Some editor who's idea of roughing it is no frothed milk for his cappucino might just decide that matches are too common and everyday to be riveting television and strike it out in favor of the sock thing. In fact, the sock thing might have been prefaced with something like "don't do this unless you have spare socks," but that got edited too.

When you're talking about TV spots, you have to remember that Dateline and it's brother shows are the ones who do things like put explosives in a truck's gas tank to prove that the gas tanks could explode ;)
You can't always count on them for accurate reporting.

 
I am wondering if there is any merit to, in a controlled enviorment, dressing lightly in colder temps?
My idea is that if you were to get acclimatized to colder temps that you could stay warmer eaiser. I know that you could not totally acclimatize to extemem cold temps. I would think that 30 to 40 degees f shouldn't be a problem? Especially if you were to keep moving/working.
If this instructor was working is an area familiar to him. Had access to proper clothing if needed. I could see how he might want to spend as much time outside as he could getting acclimated.
This are just my thoughts. I welcome any ideas anyone may want to share.

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Later, Jim

[This message has been edited by KNIFE THROWER (edited 02-08-2001).]
 
Hey Guys....

Cody AKA "AboDude" IMHO is a Moron...

Exactly what Greg said.. I was shocked he wore footgear..

The fact that he was wearing shorts in the winter is laughable....

The shealter IMO was also a joke..Actually it wasn't even a shelter,, it was a bed....

You also gotta like the Fillet knife he wears around his neck....

The guys a camera hound and thats it...

I've seen this guy before,,and actually one of Ron's Hoodlums confronted him in a telephone interview last year sometime...

It wouldn't amaze me much if he's running large scale wilderness survival classes somewhere...

ttyle

Eric..

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On/Scene Tactical
Leading The Way In Quality Synthetic Sheathing
 
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