Dealer Recommendations?

P

Professor_Jack

Joined
Jul 5, 2015
Messages
100
So, I need to buy at least one good practice dao, but there aren't any local places where I live, and I'm entirely unfamiliar with most online retailers.
I'm hoping someone here can point me to a good dealer or to a missed thread that does the same.

Specifically, I'm looking for at least one basic practice, non-flexible ox-tail dao, like the one pictured here

Obviously, it's not hard to find the item in question, it's just that online purchases can go so very wrong, and I'm hoping y'all can direct me to a dealer that has a good reputation.
Then I can buy from them, and feel secure.

EDIT: I'm told my intent isn't wholly clear here, so I'll rephrase for anyone else who wishes to recommend something
I'm looking for a solid, realistically-weighted or heavier, blunt, practice oxtail sabre for use in conjunction with Shaolin Tiger kung fu training. Because so many online retailers seem to either stock the same items or appear to be different sites for a single company, I am unsure of any reliable sellers, and am asking for the recommendation/advice/testimonials of other users to identify reputable places where I can be reasonably assured to receive my purchases in a timely and reliable manner, whereupon I may continue to use them for other purchases that may come up.
Live steel recommendations are welcome, but are not likely to be used at this time, as my skill level and personal inclinations do not prescribe a live weapon that requires the level of maintenance associated with such well-constructed gear.

Hopefully that clears up the issues of communication.
 
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Kult Of Athena is a great site to browse and comparison shop. Nihonzashi gets good marks. Eastern Martial Arts Supplies another. The Hanwei practical dao may be what you are looking for. When all else fails, ask your sensei ;)

Cheers

GC
 
I personally like the offerings of CAS Iberia in general, and if the Dao that they offered becomes available, it would be an excellent starting place.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
O.O dudes
Y'all are pointing me at live steel. I am what is politely known as a beginner. I'm just in the market for butterknives that I can throw in my trunk XD

Still, I'll keep a note of these places for when I'm ready for a real weapon.
 
Live steel is too much fun not to talk about it you know.....If you are looking at a pure training dao for the trunk, start off with a curved ax handle, a rasp, and a power sander. Half an hour of work will give you a custom hardwood dao that will actually land a hell of a blow if you want it to. Next level up is a metal blunt, but I am way too snobby to go for the die-cast aluminum that seems to be the common offering. What you want is a Longquan Dao made of spring steel. It's hard to explain the name exactly, since it's a region in China known for making weapons for a long time, and other companies will manufacture Longquan-style weapons and market them as such--it's all been very confusing over the years. Stay away from anything that says "modern" or "wu shu" in the title or you will get stuck with a tinfoil sword. The code words you want are "traditional" or "combat steel" and don't worry about them coming with a sharpened edge unless it is specifically stated....After all, they could charge extra for a sharp blade, and a good blunt should only set you back around $80. Hopefully you already know not to trust the russian roulette of the well-known auction site, because even if the item is exactly as described there is a problem with jaw-dropping shipping charges from Chinese suppliers that can be hidden until too late. I hope this isn't deal-spotting, but I buy gear from martialartsmart.com and have never been screwed. They aren't as awesome as the guy I first started buying from, but ever since he died they have been my source.
 
BitingSarcasm said:
They aren't as awesome as the guy I first started buying from, but ever since he died they have been my source.
Click to expand...
Your bigotry is shameful. Won't buy from a man just because he died? People like you are why the undead have to wander the streets begging for brains!

But in all seriousness, I prolly will end up buying one of the aluminum ones, just for the lack of necessary care. You wanna talk snob-repellent, have you seen those polypropylene ones? I can't shake the image of the blade rolling up like an elfin shoe.
 
Professor_Jack said:
But in all seriousness, I prolly will end up buying one of the aluminum ones, just for the lack of necessary care. You wanna talk snob-repellent, have you seen those polypropylene ones? I can't shake the image of the blade rolling up like an elfin shoe.
Click to expand...

If you are not willing to put in the time to maintain a training implement, you sure are not going to be worthy of owning the real thing.

Yes your money, you can do what you want....but when training in martial arts....it's about improving yourself mentally and physically, trying to be a better citizen of the world....and it starts with the little things...how one bows, speaks to teacher and other students and maintains gear.....no short cuts or cheats....

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Sure, I would buy from the undead, but they charge an arm and a brain, and I need all the poor grey matter I have left to anchor my thinning hair and provide snappy comebacks. I never trained with the aluminum models, they came out after my time. I would be concerned about how they would handle unexpected impact; properly treated spring steel is resilient and I have seen it bend rather than break. One time in particular a friend doing forms went too low and sheared into a linoleum-covered concrete floor. His blade bent like a banana and about the last inch took a set. A few minutes with a hammer and anvil straightened things out nicely. Would aluminum be as forgiving or would it shatter off a jagged inch? I am actually rather curious to know, if one of the metallurgy guys would care to weigh in.....The polypro is interesting, but after I trundled out to a Cold Steel parking lot sale a few years ago and handled their plastic bokken, I just can't get into it for swords--just too whippy, like a wu shu blade. This is all academic of course, because once the Elf Anti-Defamation League gets ahold of you, it's off to the coal mine for Big Red.
 
I don't know where this "worthy" thing started, but I blame the Hagakure crowd with perpetuating it. A weapon is a tool, take care of it and it will take care of you. Don't take care of it, and it will still take care of you, and maybe finish you off. If the tool is required for protection, it would be insane to not keep it in well-maintained. It sounds like the Prof is going to use a dao the same way a gym rat uses a dumbbell, as a tool to refine his physical skills, not as a spiritual aid. He doesn't need an heirloom blade or a means of defense, and for a lot of students time spent maintaining is time not spent training--they don't yet know that learning to take care of a waster will serve them well when they graduate to a better quality weapon. Wiping down a piece of steel doesn't make you a better person, and after two decades training and meeting people in the arts I can say that I wish people took as much care with their selves as they did with their toys. There are great people, great masters out there, but there are also many who loudly proclaim how humble and meek they are without seeing the irony. I have met many men who espouse non-violence yet laugh about the times they were "forced" to fight. Are they worthy, and who gets to judge? If we are making the world a better place through the little things, perhaps mocking a man who is willing to admit to being a beginner may not be the way to start.
 
Always with the condescension from you. You've got to relax, dude. Breathe deep and let go.

You've also got to remember, I don't practice what you do. You follow a school of thought that defines your weapon as an object of personal significance. Mine does the opposite. It teaches the refined use of a dirt-cheap peasant blade, and the overarching philosophy from which it derives is that YOU are the weapon, and should you require tools to aid you, how to use them at best effectiveness. I believe there is a place for the careful and deliberate maintenance of a beloved and personally significant weapon, but that place is not for me.
My philosophy of use is "a tool that does what I ask of it, within reason". I carry a tac knife that is advertised as a big action piece (HOSTAGE RESCUE SUPER SCARY RAPID FIGHTING KNIFE RAMBO FUCK YEAH) and mostly use it to open boxes and pop seams/smallcut when I'm making clothes and armor. It suits my purpose, and what it was "meant" for does not matter. I do not attach significance to the knife, and do not loving oil its springs or keep it shaving sharp constantly (hell, I haven't needed a shaving sharp knife in years, I only use those to scare people away from stealing my stuff at conventions), I just give it what little basic maintenance it requires to do what I ask of it.
Your school is informed by a society's rigid honor code and resources. "You MUST maintain your weapon because it is YOURS. It represents you! It is the sum total of the careful practice of the miner, the foundryman, the smith, the polisher, who toiled greatly to make it, and to treat it poorly is to disrespect them!" That's admirable. And something in that speaks to you, and has fueled your progress as you have gained greater skill. But it is not my way, and to tell me it should be is to not respect the differences between us.
There is a place for the gentle care of the respected weapon. Perhaps one day I'll find myself needing to do so, should my skills ever reach such heights. But while I am only working to hone myself? I do not need the distraction of a weapon I am not qualified to use.
 
BitingSarcasm said:
I don't know where this "worthy" thing started, but I blame the Hagakure crowd with perpetuating it. A weapon is a tool, take care of it and it will take care of you. Don't take care of it, and it will still take care of you, and maybe finish you off. If the tool is required for protection, it would be insane to not keep it in well-maintained. It sounds like the Prof is going to use a dao the same way a gym rat uses a dumbbell, as a tool to refine his physical skills, not as a spiritual aid. He doesn't need an heirloom blade or a means of defense, and for a lot of students time spent maintaining is time not spent training--they don't yet know that learning to take care of a waster will serve them well when they graduate to a better quality weapon.
Click to expand...

I'm certainly not one of the "Hagakure crowd". That was an ideal that wasn't even practiced at the time it was written.....interesting perspective historically speaking, though.

In my ryu, beginners start with bokken, and progress to iaito and then shinken.....I imagine the "worthy" thing comes from both trying to make sure basics are instilled and that the practitioner has shown sufficient grasp of basics to minimize harm to self and fellow students. A legitimate goal.

Time to maintain a martial arts weapon is minimal....5 minutes with oil, and examine the tsuka to make sure the blade is seated securely, the core isn't making any weird noises and the mekugi is in place....no more complicated than checking the dashboard on your car before leaving home and checking the tires.

Maybe that is not required by many people, but I make a habit of it, and thusly have only run out of gas twice in my life....and have never had a flat or blowout.

There are good people, bad people and horrible people in life, that is no different in martial arts...and I don't see how I was mocking the OP.

BitingSarcasm said:
Wiping down a piece of steel doesn't make you a better person, and after two decades training and meeting people in the arts I can say that I wish people took as much care with their selves as they did with their toys. There are great people, great masters out there, but there are also many who loudly proclaim how humble and meek they are without seeing the irony. I have met many men who espouse non-violence yet laugh about the times they were "forced" to fight. Are they worthy, and who gets to judge? If we are making the world a better place through the little things, perhaps mocking a man who is willing to admit to being a beginner may not be the way to start.
Click to expand...

"Worthiness" of a fine shinken is demonstrated by the person who is taking care of it at the time they have it. What art do you train in "Biting Sarcasm"?

Regardless, I'm done.....there are people that take the advice and run/learn with it and grow and those that don't.

Help the ones you can and ignore the rest, as they are beyond help.

Have fun, train smart and try not to hurt yourself(says the guy with a scar on his left forearm where the iaito went in about 3/8" and hurt quite a bit, lolz).

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Rather than get all up in arms about comments on the internet, it might behoove you to take advice in the spirit it was given. Martial arts teaches a number of things. Respect is probably the biggest one. If you don't respect yourself enough to take care of your gear, you won't last long, nor will you be able to advance much in any place worth training at. If you don't take care of a blade, you may end up with it breaking, which can have fatal results, for yourself or for someone else. This is no less true for Chinese martial arts than anything else. The ox-tail saber was the first sword-style I learned, and my sifu would have had me in horse-stance for hours for that sort of attitude. I've seen fellow students buy swords (training, non-sharps), not take care of them, and end up with the tang breaking in the handle unbeknownst to them, and then the blade flew out of the handle during forms, and injured another student. Needless to say, even if you don't face criminal charges, you'll never train at that club again.

I liken this to someone telling you to maintain your car, or wear a seat belt. Would you say, "Geez, stop being so condescending. Right now I'm just working on figuring out how to turn the steering wheel. I'll figure that other stuff out as I go." Even if you view your weapon, or your training weapon, as a tool, it still makes sense to take care of it. You take care of it, and it will take care of you. Part of what you're learning now is good habits to follow later on in your training.

Besides, if you care enough to ask for a place to shop at, it's likely for one of two reasons. Either you want to save a buck (in which case, take care of your stuff so you don't have to buy it again because it broke through your negligence), or you want something that's quality (in which case, take care of it; otherwise there's no point buying quality because it's going to be junk very quickly anyways). I'm not trying to tell you that you have to be super gung-ho about HOW you maintain your gear. But I would definitely recommend canning the attitude that you're too good to do it.
 
Any responsible person whether tradesman or martial artist treats his tools with respect. Inspect and cleans them on a regular basis.

Nothing sets me off more than a dirty weapon and I've found that it is sometimes indicative of the persons reliability.
 
crimsonfalcon07 said:
Besides, if you care enough to ask for a place to shop at, it's likely for one of two reasons. Either you want to save a buck (in which case, take care of your stuff so you don't have to buy it again because it broke through your negligence), or you want something that's quality (in which case, take care of it; otherwise there's no point buying quality because it's going to be junk very quickly anyways).
Click to expand...

Actually, if you read the thread head and absorbed the information contained therein, you'd know I was asking for recommendations of reputable online shops that can be expected to conduct their business reliably. Doubtless you yourself have purchased at least an item online, have you never encountered the issue of buying from the wrong source? If I'm buying anything, I'd prefer it arrive on time and in reasonably good condition.
It was only when I maintained I did not desire a functional weapon that Mr Kohai decided to take offense and derail the thread.
As for "take advice in the spirit it was given", I put it to you, sir, that the "advice" i was given was arrogant and derisive. I'm sure you'd agree that that sort of behavior is not to be encouraged. But Mr Kohai's behavior is, of course, not your responsibility.
What is your responsibility is your own behavior. You've come in to a thread and ignored the main topic in order to defend another user (who is a big boy) in a philosophical disagreement. In doing so you've decided to make assumptions about the conversation.
At no point have I ever said I am "too good" to perform maintenance on my tools. What I said was that I choose to use items that are low-maintenance, and maintain them as necessary. in fact, my exact words were "I just give it what little basic maintenance it requires to do what I ask of it. "
What I am choosing to do is purchase a training implement that does not require more maintenance than it is worth. If you want to use a highly-crafted sword in your exercises and practice, that's fine, but I don't choose to do that.
Now, would you like to offer your recommendation of a reliable place to purchase martial arts supplies online?
 
Wrong. He (and many of the rest of us), took issue with your comment that you were avoiding a certain type of training implement "for the lack of necessary care." If you had actually taken the time to read STeven's message, you might have realized that he made the same point that I did: it's about building correct habits.

And, if we're quoting your comments, you'll note that the "I just give it what little basic maintenance" comment was about your tac knife, not your training sword, and you immediately followed it with: "There is a place for the gentle care of the respected weapon. Perhaps one day I'll find myself needing to do so, should my skills ever reach such heights." Or, to say that another way: Perhaps one day I'll take care of my stuff, but for right now, I'm not interested.

Don't be so quick to insult people, call them names (always with the condescension from you.", for instance) etc. You're a self-admitted novice in martial arts. STeven has been training for decades. He was attempting to give you useful advice from his own training, e.g., you will find it difficult to succeed in martial arts if you lack respect for yourself to do more than minimum required. You may find that arrogant and derisive. It's actually a statement of fact. You'll figure that out eventually if you stick it out long enough.

As for my behavior? It's the internet. I am offering you advice, coming from someone who has trained in the exact style you're training in. You ignored STeven's advice because you think your style is different, and doesn't require you to respect your sword. You said so specifically. "Mine does the opposite. It teaches the refined use of a dirt-cheap peasant blade, and the overarching philosophy from which it derives is that YOU are the weapon, and should you require tools to aid you, how to use them at best effectiveness. I believe there is a place for the careful and deliberate maintenance of a beloved and personally significant weapon, but that place is not for me." I suspect the original Sifus who originated the niuweidao techniques you're learning would be horrified to hear your opinions about their art. No self-respecting sword master would ever treat their equipment with such disrespect. Speaking of respect, you've shown nothing but disrespect for many of the most knowledgeable members in the sword forum.

So let's talk about the supposed main topic of this thread. Again, from the perspective of a person who has trained extensively in the style you're learning, I know for a fact that the demands of the weapon aren't something that the student just randomly picks haphazardly. There are, in fact, both recommended weapons, and recommended sources for said weapons, that are prescribed by the sifu. If you haven't communicated with your sifu, which the lack of description suggests, you need to start there. Most of the best general sources for training weapons have been mentioned already. There are other options, but since you don't know what you want or need, outside of a non-sharp ox-tail dao, it's rather impossible to refine suggestions further. If you just need something to practice forms, get the recommended one from the school. My school preferred a good quality wood waster, for instance. If you got that original link from the school, then let us know.

You've provided insufficient information for us to know what your school requires, for one. I don't even know what type of forms you're doing. Bagua, for instance, uses a very different style, from the more flexible wushu blades used in other styles, which are distinct from the tai chi style broadswords used in other styles, or the liuyedao used in still more. And if you're going to get all offended by some basic advice to respect yourself and your equipment, you'll be hard pressed to find a craftsman on here who would be interested in helping you by making a practice sword for you, which might have been another good option.
 
crimsonfalcon07 said:
Don't be so quick to insult people, call them names (always with the condescension from you.", for instance) etc. You're a self-admitted novice in martial arts. STeven has been training for decades. He was attempting to give you useful advice from his own training, e.g., you will find it difficult to succeed in martial arts if you lack respect for yourself to do more than minimum required. You may find that arrogant and derisive. It's actually a statement of fact. You'll figure that out eventually if you stick it out long enough.
Click to expand...

Your points all expanded on what I was saying, CF thank you for a concise and clear bit of writing...and I'd like to add something....

Living here in SoCal, I was fortunate enough to have a number of ryu to choose from, but I lucked out with my Sensei(RIP).....he was highly ranked, made regular trips to Japan to train and hang with HIS Sensei and was a heck of a fine teacher. Nobody told me that I had to do extra stuff....but I always did....signed up for dojo cleanup, helped Sensei move...twice, helped maintain the dojo like it was my own home.... kicked down money whenever it was necessary....

and have never really thought about it or brought it up until now...

The WHY is simple.....good enough is never good enough.....in order to really gain from martial art study, you have to find a path, a way.....this is a key to budo, literally translated it means the "Martial Way", and may be thought of as the "Way of War" in Japanese martial arts. There are two "ways" really....there is the internal way....and the external. The external is a reflection of the internal.

I have know martial artists who are horrible people and have known martial artists who could be saints....just because someone has a path, it doesn't mean it is the high road.....and it is up to the individual to take what they need and give back what they can.

Some take all and give nothing back, and they never last very long.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
While looking for recommendations (aside from the Amazon link), the OP has listed no other sites he may, or may not have questions about their quality of service. Instead, he basically asked a single, quite ambiguous question either in ignorance or letting others play twenty questions. He has freely tossed himself into the pack mentality in virtually every thread he has participated in.

Chances are, he will find fault with any suggestion, as he has already determined what he wants, just not where he might be most comfortable buying from. Since he makes his own armor and clothing, carries a knife to scare people away at conventions; I doubt anyone here can better serve his needs and wants.

I sense a rather wry character of humor and as I have been called out for similar public disposition, maybe the best course is just to not further feed such discourse.

A well meaning grenade?
http://www.flamewarriorsguide.com/

Maybe he'll let us know what he buys and share his impressions.

Cheers

GC
 
On the other hand, now I want to make another practice dao, and have been thinking about whether or not Mecha would be able to manage one in Ti. That could be interesting...
 
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