Dear Cold Steel, please never institute MAP!

M

mastiffhound

Joined
Dec 27, 2013
Messages
345
I'm just saying it aloud, reading an old thread brought it to mind and I had one of those "Oh No!" moments. No I haven't heard anything, I just hate MAP! And before anyone says "It actually helps the little guy" it doesn't. Don't lie, if a blade costs the same at two places but one has free shipping you know which one will get the sale. Guess which one is the little guy? Or one offers free shipping at $100 while the other needs you to hit $200 before free shipping becomes worth it? At most places two Recon 1s wouldn't hit $200. So who would get the sale I wonder?

Paying a higher price sucks, as specially when the item you're buying hasn't been upgraded in any way but now costs more. I just hope that CS stays the way they are. When prices go up it's because the product has been upgraded, and that's the way it should be. Anyone else hate MAP?
 
+1 on this. I feel like the MAP pricing is driving the price artificially high, and it's killing the demand. You can see that when ZT discontinued some models like the 0801 or 0620, the price dropped drastically to better reflect the market value. A Benchmade 940-1 isn't worth the $260 MAP pricing even with S90V steel when a Spyderco Manix/PM 2 in S110V cost less than 1/2 the price with almost 2x the amount of steel.
 
hkyew said:
+1 on this. I feel like the MAP pricing is driving the price artificially high, and it's killing the demand. You can see that when ZT discontinued some models like the 0801 or 0620, the price dropped drastically to better reflect the market value. A Benchmade 940-1 isn't worth the $260 MAP pricing even with S90V steel when a Spyderco Manix/PM 2 in S110V cost less than 1/2 the price with almost 2x the amount of steel.
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Wait a minute...Spyderco has MAP also
 
hkyew said:
Yes, im aware, and you are missing the point. so there is no point arguing
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Yeah bub there's a point... point being, You're claiming MAP is a bad business model and you use the BM 940-1's MAP price as proof. Then you provide a couple models with better steel <and more of it>, at half the price...but those better prices are Spyderco MAP prices too.

If you're trying to prove MAP is bad, they why did you set up an apples:apples, that is, MAP:MAP comparison? Do you realize you discredited your entire premise that MAP is bad?


If MAP is a bad business model...how can Spyderco make it work with the M2 & PM2?
 
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PeteyTwoPointOne said:
Yeah bub there's a point... point being, You're claiming MAP is a bad business model and you use the BM 940-1's MAP price as proof. Then you provide a couple models with better steel <and more of it>, at half the price...but those better prices are Spyderco MAP prices too.

If you're trying to prove MAP is bad, they why did you set up an apples:apples, that is, MAP:MAP comparison? Do you realize you discredited your entire premise that MAP is bad?


If MAP is a bad business model...how can Spyderco make it work with the M2 & PM2?
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Sigh... okay, you win, you are the man, excellent argument & terminology and i wholeheartedly agree with you. MAP pricing is bad IMO and im gonna move on now.
 
To be sure, Benchmade only allows a 15% discount and ZT only allows a 20% discount from MSRP with MAPP.

Spyderco allows a 40% discount from MSRP with MAPP.
 
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i hate map. its the opposite of a free market and fair competition. little guys need to try harder like the big boys who once started out little and did better, worked harder and smarter and got bigger. map allows small dealers to be lazy and comfortable at a cost to everyone else. im sure many disagree so be it. too each their own.
 
Vote with your dollars...if you don't support MAP pricing policies-- simple, don't buy. That's the purest form of free market.

Now what do you think happens when EVERYONE or the MAJORITY of buyers don't like the price of a particular blade?

Well, let me tell you, Spyderco takes all the knives that don't sell puts em in 55 gal drums, pours wet cement in them, and buries the barrels at Area 51 next to the plutonium. :rolleyes:

No, just joking-- actually, they TRIPLE the price of all their next new releases to punish the buyers for not buying the previous models. :rolleyes:

Come on now, you know that's not what happens!

What the real result is, is that they get DISCOUNTED by Spyderco.

Just look at the recent deep discounts on the K2 & Burch Chubby.

MAP stinks for buyers who need instant gratification or who like to shop for deals, and I'd bet most small, independent knife shops detest MAP. One Spyderco dealer, who is a personal friend of mine has been an authorized dealer since 1998, gave up his deal with Spyderco over MAP.

But, for various reasons, a lot of companies have adopted this pricing policy.

Even more so than in nature, the marketplace is founded on "survival of the fittest." It will evolve into something different if it don't work.

And for the record, I never implicitly stated if I personally supported or hated MAP...I just wanted to call attention to the fact that it's faulty logic to say MAP is BAD and then cite a MAP-priced example of something that's GOOD.
 
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Map policy was mistake for Benchmade and Spyderco. No customers like it though a few staunch fans try to justify it. This policy has driven away business from both brands. Broke my heart when Spyderco started it.
 
I'm here because of the aforementioned companies and their MAP pricing policies. I stopped buying their products on the primary market after their policies took effect. I have since purchased three new Cold Steel knives.
 
mastiffhound, I don't think you need to worry, I can't even imagine Lynn Thompson's Cold Steel switching over to MAP. And yeah, I hate the whole idea of MAP. I do think it turns off a whole bunch of potential buyers from purchasing certain brands that have MAP. I don't think it helps anyone except maybe the manufacturer and the biggest sellers. MAP helps the little guy? Ha Ha ... please!
 
Yes, I'm an acronym moron. Pray tell, just what does *MAP* stand for in relation to pricing and why is it bad?
 
Paul_Atreides said:
Yes, I'm an acronym moron. Pray tell, just what does *MAP* stand for in relation to pricing and why is it bad?
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minimum advertised price. stops advertising of prices for products below a certain percentage of dollars and stops dealers from selling where they want to and at margins they feel they can support themselves at. the opposite of free market and fair competition. there is legal requirements of what the maker can and cant do enforcing it, lawyer stuff to get into the fine details and case laws.....but there is tons of info out there on it......
 
For the record, I'm not arguing for or against MAP policies here in general, but Benchmade's policy (and ZT's) are drastically different from Spyderco's.

Benchmade's MAP policy only allows for retailers to offer 15% off MSRP as their MAP price. ZT allows for 20% off. These policies are obviously intended to keep the price of the products near MSRP. Benchmade publicly claims that this is to help keep brick and mortar stores, who have to sell at or near MSRP because of overhead costs, afloat. I've never heard a public comment from ZT on their policy. Personally, I think it is to create a "high-end" appeal to their brand. Kind of an "it's expensive so it must be good" type of mindset. Neither one is on the verge of going out of business, but I've seen some models that could have been winners get discontinued because of over inflated prices.

Spyderco's MAP policy allows sellers to set their price as low as 40% off MSRP. Since dealer cost is generally 50% of MSRP, this only forces a mandatory 10% mark-up (the dealer can still set whatever price between 40% off and MSRP they want). The cheapest reputable dealers were selling Spydercos at 45% off MSRP before MAP went into effect. There is still wide room for competition with this particular MAP policy. Spyderco's policy was specifically targeted at preventing large retailers (namely Amazon) from using Spyderco knives as loss leaders and making up the difference through other products and subscription services.

Are these policies a mistake? I don't know. I don't own many knives from these brands. I've followed Spyderco closely over the years because of their high level of innovation. I don't own a large number of their products. I have a couple Delicas, an Endura, and a PM2. I've owned several others to try out various innovations for a bit before selling them on the secondary market. I had a couple of Benchmade Griptilians years ago (gifted them away), and I think I have a BM mini Barrage somewhere at home that I got as a gift. I've handled a couple of ZT knives, but they just aren't in my wheelhouse (over-priced with or without MAP).

I'm with you guys in hoping the Cold Steel doesn't implement MAP. I don't think they will.
 
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