Decent sharpening hones: recommendations please

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DaveHb

Joined
Oct 18, 2021
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106
What are some decent sharpening hones, one can carry that’s not gonna break the bank?
Couldn’t figure out why I was having such issues sharpening close to choil and tip, (work sharp guided system.)
Finally checked the plates. Checked 3 of the 4 plates all were curved quite a bit.
Ordered a dmt, and had to send it back. No diamond coating around the perimeter.
I don’t really want a full size bench stone, and am getting tired of ordering only to have to send back.
Probably too late to get refunded on the WS.
Got a spyderco double stuff and it’s not flat and like a piece of glass.
All I have found in Atoma has been large bench stones I don’t really want.
Needless to say I’m getting frustrated so looking for advice.
https://imgur.com/a/I0VhTLn
https://imgur.com/a/7wqkev7
 
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Sounds like the issues near the choil might be due to some recurve there, which is extremely common. Especially so, after powered belt sharpening is done - the belt flexes laterally, which creates the recurve in the edge. Many or most factory edges get applied via belts, so there's almost always some inward curvature (recurve) there, which won't make flush contact on any flat hone, whether it's perfectly flat or not. Also have to account for the laterally recurved transition from cutting edge to the ricasso, which also won't allow any contact except at the very edges of flat hones.

Issues at or near the tip of blades are all about technique, making sure to lift the handle through the 'belly' of the cutting edge and into the tip, so the bevel stays in flush contact.

One way to compensate for the recurve near the choil, is to radius the edge of a stone so it'll fit recurves. This can be done with most any oil stone or water stone, by grinding one long edge to some curvature, often using another more aggressive stone to do the work. An example below, is one of my Norton India pocket stones, on which I've radiused one edge to handle those areas near the ricasso (area where cutting edge meets the tang of the blade). I created the radiused edge on the stone using another stone in silicon carbide (SiC), the grit of which is harder than the aluminum oxide of the India stone and can shape it easily.
XBXzIAW.jpg

BSWIDUF.jpg


Obviously, a plated diamond hone's edge can't be radiused in such a manner. But other diamond options, like round or oval rods, can do the same job. If the steel you're sharpening doesn't warrant diamond for sharpening anyway, you might consider other stones in silicon carbide or aluminum oxide, which can be shaped as described above. Can even find 'slipstones' made with rounded edges for such work - they're actually made for sharpening woodworking tools, like gouges for carving and lathe work, to handle the curved edges on those.

I'd suggest posting a clear picture or two, of the specific blade you're having trouble with and the existing edge profile. May or may not be what I'm assuming above - but that's why some clear pics would be helpful, in generating more pertinent feedback.
 
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Obsessed with Edges said:
Sounds like the issues near the choil might be due to some recurve there, which is extremely common. Especially so, after powered belt sharpening is done - the belt flexes laterally, which creates the recurve in the edge. Many or most factory edges get applied via belts, so there's almost always some inward curvature (recurve) there, which won't make flush contact on any flat hone, whether it's perfectly flat or not. Also have to account for the laterally recurved transition from cutting edge to the ricasso, which also won't allow any contact except at the very edges of flat hones.

Issues at or near the tip of blades are all about technique, making sure to lift the handle through the 'belly' of the cutting edge and into the tip, so the bevel stays in flush contact.

One way to compensate for the recurve near the choil, is to radius the edge of a stone so it'll fit recurves. This can be done with most any oil stone or water stone, by grinding one long edge to some curvature, often using another more aggressive stone to do the work. An example below, is one of my Norton India pocket stones, on which I've radiused one edge to handle those areas near the ricasso (area where cutting edge meets the tang of the blade). I created the radiused edge on the stone using another stone in silicon carbide (SiC), the grit of which is harder than the aluminum oxide of the India stone and can shape it easily.
XBXzIAW.jpg

BSWIDUF.jpg


Obviously, a plated diamond hone's edge can't be radiused in such a manner. But other diamond options, like round or oval rods, can do the same job. If the steel you're sharpening doesn't warrant diamond for sharpening anyway, you might consider other stones in silicon carbide or aluminum oxide, which can be shaped as described above. Can even find 'slipstones' made with rounded edges for such work - they're actually made for sharpening woodworking tools, like gouges for carving and lathe work, to handle the curved edges on those.

I'd suggest posting a clear picture or two, of the specific blade you're having trouble with and the existing edge profile. May or may not be what I'm assuming above - but that's why some clear pics would be helpful, in generating more pertinent feedback.
Click to expand...
It’s all my knives. Mostly drop points.
Maybe I’m missing something as I don’t see how I can get a proper sharpening as long as all my plates have the curve to them as can be seen in the below photo.
The worksharp guided plates have enough curvature (high in the center) that I can place a straight edge on the plate and easily slide a thick coin roller between the plate and straight edge all the way to the center as seen in OP.
I got the system to also sharpen narrow planer blades and chisels, but if I try to sharpen a chisel it wouldn’t be flat because the plates have a curve to them and would give a guessed .010 recurve in the center of the chisel.
And as the DMT I ordered can be seen in OP there was a 1/4 perimeter of the plate that had no abrasive coating so once again a knife choil area wouldn’t get sharpened.
I am sharpening high end steels. If there is something to sharpen those other than diamond I’d give it a try.
The spyderco double stuff just doesn’t seem to do much without added more pressure than I feel should be required.
How can I hold a knife blade flat and expect it to sharpen the blade uniform if I have a curvature in the plate?
https://imgur.com/a/b80zJSQ
 
Another example.
Having to resurface spyderco double stuff so it’s flat.
Maybe working in machine shop years ago made me a perfectionist. If we got such bad quality time after time back then we would have been pulling our hair out.
https://imgur.com/a/z8aFY2S
 
DMT does certify their 'Duo-Sharp' line of interrupted surface bench hones to be very flat (they term it 'precision flat'), within tight tolerance. For items like chisels and plane irons that need to have dead-straight cutting edges, that's an option. Some woodworkers do use them for that purpose, sharpening chisels and such. Others might use water stones, which can be made dead-flat more easily, using dedicated flattening/conditioning stones made for that purpose.

Most other knives are usually sharpened on less than perfectly flat stones as a matter of course anyway, as most new stones aren't perfectly flat and a well-used stone won't maintain it's flatness over time. A normal sharpening pass on a stone is a skimming pass, drawing the edge along and across the stone's surface, diagonally from corner to corner on the stone, and heel to tip on the blade. In almost all cases, the point of contact between the blade edge and the stone is going to be literally that - just a very small point of contact and not fully flush to a large length of the cutting edge all at once. If the blade were to leave a visible trail of contact on the stone (and it will), it'll be revealed as a narrow line, like a pencil-drawn line, along the stone. That is normal for the vast majority of knife sharpening. It's not generally necessary for stone to be dead-flat, as the edges on most knives won't be perfectly straight anyway, many of those by design (like the drop point blades). Point of this being, this may not necessarily be an issue of the stone's flatness, but of the sharpening style attempted or expectations beyond what is considered normal for everyday knife sharpening.

I CAN SEE, that issues with concavity of the stone can be problematic. A blade edge being drawn across the upturned edge of a concave or 'dished' stone can be damaging, either heavily burring or rolling or chipping the edge as it passes over the crisp upturned edge of the stone. I did see such issues with one of the Spyderco DoubleStuff hones I have, years ago. I did also go through a process of flattening that hone on a diamond plate to deal with that - but it also changed the finishing characteristic of the stone to something much finer. These days, if seeing such an issue on these hones, I'd likely just send them back for replacement, instead of trying to resurface them.
 
It’s especially problematic with the worksharp guided system with the “pivot response” because unless it is locked you can’t get the edge close to the choil because if the blade is tilted to compensate for the curvature of the plate the pivot let’s plate move further down never allowing the choil portion of blade to touch, been locking it to compensate. Still a pain.
As for the tip as it’s swiped down the plate when it pivot due to curvature it’s really hard to compensate, and get the point of the blade properly.
If it was a wider plate with same curvature it wouldn’t be so difficult. I think the plate is 1.25 or 1.5” wide.
With the plate locked I have to compensate best I can.
The DMT I got was flat but my goodness. Unusable to sharpen a knife due to lack of plating.
Seems everything I’ve ordered lately hasn’t even been decent. I’d be happy with a good 400, and 600 grit and my strops.
I did get the spyderco resurfaced.
Unlike the one you had mine had no “bite” before resurfacing. It was almost like running knife over piece of glass. Working better now.
 
Anyone know if the
Eze-Lap Duo-Grit Superfine / Medium Diamond Bench Stone is at least half decent?
 
No clue sorry…. But I have been blown away by a nice Arkansas translucent after flatting it myself on other perfect stones/diamonds.


Atoma is a no brainer if your a perfectionist. Grab a 140 and 400 and a couple of Naniwa Choseras (800 and 3000) NOTE: SADLY MY CHOSERA STARTED CRAZING SO CANT recommend as highly 3/22/22

OR if you want to play the lottery get a bevel setter (1k cerax or 800/1000 chosera or equivalent) and find a nice translucent Arkansas.


if your working with harder steels go with the first option.

You sound like you have a high standard and low budget… something has to give :)
 
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What rm41400 said. In addition, look at the Shapton Glass stones, which are popular with woodworkers and in the straight razor community. They're more dense than the Naniwa/Chosera stones so they won't need to be flattened as often. On the other hand, they're also a about 1/3 as thick (abrasive) so they may not last as long. They're also splash-and-go so you don't have to bother with soaking.
 
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