Deciding on a Santoku from JCK

J

JSR

Joined
Apr 4, 2006
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338
Looking to pick up a Santoku from JCK, but I know nothing about any of these brands or models. Any reviews and experiences with these brands and models would be appreciated. Thanks.

Tojiro F-503 DP-Series $45
- 60-61HRC
- cobalt swedish steel
http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/DPSwdenSteelWoodenHandleSeries.html#WIDTH:%20367px;%20HEIGHT:%20174px

Tojiro F-507 Suminagasi $81
- 60-61HRC
- swedish steel, Damascas
http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/DPSuminagashi(LayredDamascus)Series.html#WIDTH:%20369px;%20HEIGHT:%20223px

Misono No.581 $75.60
- 58HRC
- high carbon, 13Cr, Mo steel
http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/MolybdenumSeries.html#WIDTH:%20400px;%20HEIGHT:%20240px

Fujiwara FKM and FKS $73/$85.80
- 58-59HRC
- MoV steel
http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/HKSSeries.html#WIDTH:%20401px;%20HEIGHT:%20251px

Kanetsugu Pro-M PM-03 $67.50
- ?HRC
- high carbon, Mo steel
http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/KANETSUGU.html

Glestain Home Series 817TK $99
- 58-59HRC
- ACUTTO440 steel
http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/HomeKnifeSeries.html

Hiromoto TJ-35AS $93.50
- 59-60HRC
- 13-14.5Cr, 0.95-1.1C steel
http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/TenmiJyurakuSeries.html#WIDTH:%20350px;%20HEIGHT:%20184px

I'm also considering (but these are pricier)

Hattori HD-5 $115
- 60-61HRC
- VG-10, 63 layer damascus
http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/HDSeries.html#WIDTH:%20422px;%20HEIGHT:%20217px

Masamoto VG-5218 $115
- 60HRC
- VG-10, layered?
http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/VGSeries.html#WIDTH:%20323px;%20HEIGHT:%20181px

Tojiro F-517 $108
- 61-63HRC
- high-speed powdered tool steel with 13Cr
- is this more rust prone since it's tool steel?
http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/PowderedHighSpeedToolSteelSeries.html#WIDTH:%20323px;%20HEIGHT:%20197px
 
You have good taste in chefs knives. Personally, I would go for the VG10. I have a Kai/Kershaw Santoku in VG10 and love it.

Double check if the blades are chisel ground, sharpened on just one side. They take a bit of getting used to and are generally heavy.

Some of those Rockwell scales are getting pretty high. The harder the steel, the more difficult to sharpen, but the longer they keep the edge. Do you have a diamond honing steel? I only need to grind my Kai/Kershaw about once a year, and hone it every couple of uses. It is shaving sharp.

The last knife has 13% chromium, so it isn't going to rust. Powdered steel is going to be CPM steels like S30V (14% Cr) or ZDP 189 (20% Cr).

I wouldn't worry too much about price as long as you can afford it, as a good knife is a joy to use and worth every penny.

I am a trade chef, currently making kitchen knives :)
 
Andrew - thanks for your insight. Would you mind taking a look at the various Santokus I listed and give me your opinion on them? I don't have a diamond hone steel. I just touch up my kitchen knives occasionally on my Sharpmaker. I can't tell if they're chisel ground from the pictures and the site doesn't state it. I'll add links to the site for each Santoku for you, and anyone else, to look at.

Thanks.
 
I am a chef also, I recommend the Hattori.

I do not have their Santoku, but I do have the Gyuto. Hattori's are not chisel ground.

Sharpmaker is fine, it's what I use.
 
I have a Tojiro Santoku and relkly like it.I strop it with leather on a wood block with green compound in the leather and that keeps it hair popping sharp.Lots of bang for the buck.:thumbup:
 
I've just recently ordered an R2 Damascus Santoku from Mr Itou of JCK. If there's interest, I'll let you know how good it handles.

GeunineStaghandleSantoku175mm.jpg


~Paul~
 
#1 looks very lightweight and as cheap as its cost

#2 is pretty, but not everyone can get along with metal Global-type handles

#3 looks better quality, is softer at Rc 57 so easier to sharpen. Dyed plywood handle.

#4 Not damascus, but hand forged and must be thicker to accept the Granton dimples. Grinds look nice.

#5 VG10, heat treated and cryo quenched. Nice quality and the handles look comfortable.

#6 Yuk, I know knives are very subjective to the owner, but I really don't like those gimmicky critters.

#7 Nice. Carbon steel core with stainless steel skin. Very hard blade at Rc 62/63. The core will discolour and rust if you don't look after the knife.

The more expensive range;
#8 The best so far. Very Kai/Kershaw Shun. Beautiful Damascus, hot-stamped Kanji, with a thicker blade than the preceeding knives at 3 mm. Sold Out though until mid-April. Member Siga Siga has one, and it is good to go by recommendation.

#9 Kinda plain for the money

#10 Nice quality blade with good grinds. Hardened to 61 to 63Rc so will hold a good edge.

For me, it is a toss-up between 8 and 10. Having said that, I am blown away by Paul's knife. I just don't know how they can sell them for that sort of money. They are true custom knives and functional works of art. I am very tempted myself and I have far too many knives already!

Your Sharpmaker will be fine for sharpening any of these kitchen knives as it is the same as using a water stone. If you only had a traditional chefs/butchers honing steel, a number of those knives are as hard as the steel itself. None of the knives you are looking at are chisel ground.
 
Thanks everyone for your valuable feedback.

Andrew - I have a few questions about your comments if you don't mind:

#2 Tojiro - "metal Global-type handles" - what do you mean by this? The handles are staminawood.

#5 Kanetsugu Pro-M - where did you read it has VG-10 blade? Can't seem to find that in the descriptions.

#7 Hiromoto - sorry, I meant to say the TJ-35G3 version with the SS blade for $85. My wife has a tendency to leave knives wet and in the drainer, so I don't want to take the chance of it rusting.

For over $100, I'm leaning toward the Hattori also, but my wife doesn't want to spend that much.

For under $100, I think it's between the Tojiro Damascus (#2) for the hardness (60-61HRC), the Fujiwara (#4) for the Granton dimples, the Kanetsugu Pro-M (#5) if it's VG-10 (and I like the handles), and the Hiromoto G3 Gingami (#7) stainless steel.
 
I have a couple of the Hattori damascus bladed knives. They are beautiful and sharp. The thinner Japanese blades are more fragile than my wife was used to and she's afraid to use them. If I were to buy again, I'd look harder at the Kanetsugo Pro-M (which was my second choice). It's also sharp and functional, just not as pretty. Maybe my wife wouldn't be afraid to use it.
 
JSR said:
Thanks everyone for your valuable feedback.

Andrew - I have a few questions about your comments if you don't mind:

#2 Tojiro - "metal Global-type handles" - what do you mean by this? The handles are staminawood.

#5 Kanetsugu Pro-M - where did you read it has VG-10 blade? Can't seem to find that in the descriptions.

#7 Hiromoto - sorry, I meant to say the TJ-35G3 version with the SS blade for $85. My wife has a tendency to leave knives wet and in the drainer, so I don't want to take the chance of it rusting.

For over $100, I'm leaning toward the Hattori also, but my wife doesn't want to spend that much.

For under $100, I think it's between the Tojiro Damascus (#2) for the hardness (60-61HRC), the Fujiwara (#4) for the Granton dimples, the Kanetsugu Pro-M (#5) if it's VG-10 (and I like the handles), and the Hiromoto G3 Gingami (#7) stainless steel.
Click to expand...

Well that is very odd. When I looked at #2 this morning it was a one piece knife with integral stainless steel handle, just like a knife from the company Global. For some reason I was looking here;
http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/TojiroProDamascus.html
Img415.jpg


This one
Img350.jpg
is a nice knife. Good handle, bolster, nice damascus blade. 'Staminawood' is another name for pakka wood, a resin bonded plywood-type bamboo.

#5. Reading between the lines. :) Molybdenum alloy high carbon stainless steel

Steel VG-10 is high carbon and high Molybdenum
Carbon 0.95-1.05 (C) Manganese 0.50 (Mn) Chromium (Cr) 14.50-15.50 Vanadium (V) 0.10-0.30 Molybdenum (Mo) 0.90-1.20
Cobalt (Co) 1.30-1.50

#7. A better choice in SS.

Tell your wife what I said about a good knife being a joy to use. It will make her job easier in the kitchen, or yours with all the extra cooking you are going to do for her. :thumbup: The knife will be used every day, and could well last long enough to be used by your children and grandchildren.

A lot of ladies struggle with knifework due to cheap knives, because of bad steel, uncomfortable handles, and dull blades. A beautiful knife that is light and well balanced made with quality ingredients has no comparison. They do say you can return a knife to the US Distributor if you don't like it.

Your shortlist is good. It all comes down to personal choice. I like the handles on the KANETSUGU Pro M Series as well. They look tactile and comfortable.
 
I have the Tojiro-Pro F-507, (your #2 Tojiro). It is an excellent worker in the kitchen. Very thin blade that cuts like a laser.
I also have five of the metal handled Tojiros and love those knives dearly. I was unsure when I first spotted them, then when I handled them, I thought "this could work for me!" and they did. The 210mm western style Deba is an outstanding heavy kitchen work knife.

You have some truly outstanding knives in your possibles list. It's really difficult to go wrong with any Hattori or Masamoto knife. Also, if I knew about that Tojiro F-517 powdred tool steel knife, I'da been all over it. But, as it is now, I'm very pleased with all the Tojiro-Pro knives I have.

The Japanese flat-out have it going on with their kitchen knives and if you enjoy cooking at all, those knives will really bring a smile to your face when it's time to do those mundane food prep chores.
 
Prairiedog said:
I have a couple of the Hattori damascus bladed knives. They are beautiful and sharp. The thinner Japanese blades are more fragile than my wife was used to and she's afraid to use them. If I were to buy again, I'd look harder at the Kanetsugo Pro-M (which was my second choice). It's also sharp and functional, just not as pretty. Maybe my wife wouldn't be afraid to use it.
Click to expand...

As a chef I can assure you that my knife sees more use in one day than the average persons knife will see in months. That being said, the Hattori's beg to be used. Shallots brunoise (fine dice) themselves in fear of them.

Treat any tool with respect and it will serve you right.

If you want something to really rock and roll with without worrying about any potential damage have a look at the Tojiro F-920 DP Chinese Cleaver.

[URL="http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/ChineseCleaver.html

It it is one bad mutha. Sounds like a M2 .50 cal. Machine Gun :cool:
 
Andrew Taylor,

I have a Tojiro DP wood-handled nakiri and paring knife and they're well made and very solid. That said, I prefer my Shuns and their thinner factory edges.
 
Prairiedog said:
If I were to buy again, I'd look harder at the Kanetsugo Pro-M (which was my second choice).
Click to expand...

I have a 210mm Pro-M chefs knife and it does have a very thin blade. I've never tried cutting anything but soft foods so I can't say how tough it is, but it is sharp. I like it.
 
I've owned a few of those and my favorite is the Hiromoto in AS. AS gets ridiculously sharp and the patina it forms is very nice. The nice part is the SS cladding. It's a great knife, lots of soul, cuts like a laser.
 
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