Defense Folder Recommendation?

N

njr

Joined
Jul 25, 2009
Messages
82
Hi,

This is my third post on this forum, just trying to do a little research...I've bought some folders before but they've all been sub 3" and I'd like to get a bigger one. I'd be using it for EDC and SD, and yes, I'm getting training for SD and I've read the laws for my area (Chicago, IL), know the legal atmosphere and am getting a second opinion from Mr. Levine.

So, that said, I think I've narrowed it down to:

Spyderco 4+ inches (Military, Police, Para)

Benchmade 710 or Griptilian

I'm also looking at getting a Becker Necker, more for when I ccw out of state and something Boker Editish, again for ccw.

However, I also saw in a local store a Spyderco that looked really sweet in a leaf blade type design, if I remember correctly, but with digi camo, which I passed on b/c it looked rambo.

If I got a leaf blade, would that be more for slashing than thrusting in a SD situation? Would the width of the blade be bad in terms of thrusting? If not, would there be models that you would recommend?

Thanks in advance.
 
I don't have the Benchmade 710 but can vouch for the Spyderco Military or Para (less than 4 inches). In Canada people aren't allowed to carry knives for defense as they are considered a concealed weapon but if a armed person were to attack me and I happened to have a tool with me, the Military would be a good one to have.
 
i dont really like axis lock knives for self defense because i believe the axis lock could easily be pushed or disengaged during a confrontation.

i would feel much better carrying a spyderco. the ones you listed are all great, i think the manix 2, chinook and the spyderco stretch 2 are also good for self defense. out of the 3 you mentioned i like the police 3 best, its huge but slim and has a backlock which i would take over an axis any day.


a leaf blade is excellent for both slashing and thrusting.

the new emerson mini cqc 15 and the lone wolf T2 are nice too.
 
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njr said:
Spyderco 4+ inches (Military, Police, Para)

Benchmade 710 or Griptilian
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All excellent knives but also, AFAIK, illegal to carry in IL, let alone Chicago, since they all have blades over 3 inches. Of course, carrying anything "with intent" can get you in trouble for conceled weapons violations in IL. Whether or not to take the chance is up to you.

However, I also saw in a local store a Spyderco that looked really sweet in a leaf blade type design, if I remember correctly, but with digi camo, which I passed on b/c it looked rambo.
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Huh, leaf blade sounds like a Spyderco Lum Chinese folder (below?), although I did not know they were offered in camo. :confused:

C65BK_M.jpg


If I got a leaf blade, would that be more for slashing than thrusting in a SD situation? Would the width of the blade be bad in terms of thrusting?
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Well, the Lum has a decent point on it. It might not be the ideal shape for thrusting but it should be able to do so fairly effectivly.

If not, would there be models that you would recommend?
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A common question, but what it really comes down to is training. Different training styles often work best with different blade styles and no knife is a "magic sword" when the SHTF.

Spyderco has made some very nice, specialized folding fighters that slide under the IL blade length limit for "Class I Weapons" (over 3 inches) such as the P'kal or the OOP Yojimbo and Karambit. There are also some other makers of quality folding Karambits around. But, all these knives are designed for a certain style of fighting so if your training is different they would not necessarily be the best choice for you.

C103G_M.jpg
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Given the political climate in IL, you might actually be better off with a more inocculous looking, utility blade like the Spyderco Delica. Small (2 7/8 inch) and relativly innocent looking, but still quick to deploy and large enough for effective slashing attacks.

C11G_M.jpg
 
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Many tactical folders will work for SD. As to which is best for you that will depend on a lot of factors, not the least of which is the defense style you will be learning. You should add the Al Mar SERE 2000 and Emerson CQC models to your list, as well as the CRKT Hissatsu. Some manufacturers make special training folders which have the same heft and balance as the equivalent tactical folder, and you should also consider the benefits of training with the same knife you choose for SD carry.

The following links to training knives is not an endorsement of knife or supplier but provided merely as examples of training knives

http://www.copsplus.com/prodnum853.php
http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=6
 
the spyderc caly 3 is what comes to mind when i hear leaf shape, its a very effective design.

2542-zoom.jpg


the manix 2 also has it
C101GP2L.jpg
 
I would vouche for the spyderco military. Excellent knife for just about everything.

The digi-camo spydie that you saw could have been the Para-military, the shorter version of the military. The more "stubby" shaped blade could appear to be leaf shaped :D

Emerson knives seem to be more directed for military/self defense use as they have the wave feature which 'causes them to open upon drawing them from your pocket.
 
stormyone said:
I hear them $400 Benchmade 806 M4 knives are pretty nice for a defensive folder.
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For a self defense folder, the steel doesn't need to be "premium" like M4. Edge retention isn't as much of a factor. AUS 8 should do just fine. So you'd be paying a $200-$300 premium for a factor that isn't relevant to SD.
 
For s.d. look at the Black Hawk BeWharned. I own one and carry it when I work. This knife is probably the best s.d. folder I have owned to date bar none. Wharncliff styled blade but an absolutely needle sharp point on it and a very straight edge so it acts like a straight razor when cutting. TK did a piece on it a while back and everything they wrote about is true. I nocticed when the blade is locked open that the blade actually has a bit of a bias to it back towards you. Don't know how good of an edc it would make but for a s.d. folder it is small, concealable, lt. wt. very strong, very sharp and needle freakin sharp. keepem sharp
 
Many thanks, guys. I will definitely look at your recommendations. I definitely love the style of the leaf blade, but if something less leafy thrusts better, I'm open to that.

I practice Systema, russianmartialart.com , it's kind of like external tai chi I'm told. I've only been at it 3+ months. Before that, it was a year of Krav Maga, got up to level 2, but I'm an old man of 41, so I went looking for something softer after two injuries. There is another Systema studio in Chicago that focuses a bit more on knife SD and they have Al McLuckie come in for seminars every month or few. I went to a class at this other studio and the trainer was showing us a mix of Filipino with McLuckie thrown in, I gather. Very interesting. I went to a seminar for systema in Toronto this past Spring, and we spent a day on knife work- I learned moves from most of the people there who were more experienced than I. I bought their standard fixed blade trainer, it looks like a big-ass kitchen knife coated with plastic but apparently there is a knife with a blank in there.

I think that I'll look at the military or a step down for reach and capabilities.

I've read the IL and Chicago law back and forth numerous times and am getting a second opinion from Mr. Levine, but it appears that a blade over three inches is okay in IL and same for Chicago, as long as the clip is displayed (in Chicago). It's only if you use a blade 3"+ with intent to commit a crime that the dangerous weapon charge comes in. Or, possibly if you go to a publicly licensed event where they serve alcohol or a bar. Even there, if you carry -3", you're okay. If you carry 2.5" or less in Chicago, you don't even have to display the clip. Of course I'm not a lawyer, seek your own legal advice, etc.
 
Also, I've read that having the tip in line with the handle is the preferred design for thrusting. Comments? It seems most? of the spyderco models are a bit off in this way and more slashing oriented? Is it a negligible difference? My thought is what if (god forbid) I ever had to go for a thrust to the side of the neck, I would probably use the thumb-aiming method and be holding the knife sideways...would this affect POI or penetration?

Also, don't mean to start a big debate, but tip up vs. tip down? I'm assuming that if knife deployment is the preferred outcome and impact tool is secondary, tip up would be preferable? Although I've read that draw with tip down gives you more wrist stregnth in a CQB situation?
 
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Sorry to be a salami, but another question: is a g10 handle worth paying a premium for? Or, in a worst case scenario, would the standard handle material be good enough for knife retention?
 
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