Defensive Shelters

D

Dave568

Joined
May 24, 2005
Messages
118
If you were forced to spend a few weeks in bear country with no real methods for self defense, what kind of shelter would you build to sleep in? The goal is to build a shelter that provides you with enough protection that a curious or hungry bear wouldn't be able to approach you in your sleep. This scenerio isn't very realistic, but I think it would be fun to discuss anyway. The only limitations on the shelters are you must use only materials that could be found in the wilds of North America.

I'm currently trying to figure out what my shelter would look like, I'll update when I come up with something that I think would suffice.
 
Interesting topic!

In Asia, they sometimes cut punji sticks and ring their camps to keep tigers out. A thick ring of them, since tigers can jump pretty well, lol.

I dunno if that would work for bears: What they lack in airbourne combat skills they make up for in brute strength and thick skin. Besides, it'd take alot of time and work, and you may lack the tools or material.

Maybe camping on a point of land, a ridge point with an entry path you can block off. I know you were talking about shelters, but I think terrain is more important unless you could build a cabin, or block a cave entrance.

Or, maybe, you could build a shelter in a super-thick thicket of good sized trees.

Perhaps a shelter could be built of big rocks and fallen logs that would be sturdy enough to hold up to bear scrutiny.

That's all I've got...all in theory, too.

Take care.
 
If you had a couple days or cut the sticks in advance, I think the best way would be what madmanamus mentioned, the punji stick ring. It would have to be a few feet wide though.

Although its not found in nature, a ring of gasoline (not on fire) around the site would work. For whatever reason bears simply stay away from gasoline. It will stay there for a day or two then evaporate.

Another way would be to build log or pitfall bear traps and bait them with pungent dead animals. Its not surefire, but would probably drastically increase your chances of survival.

Unfortunately bears can climb trees so you're not safe up there...

Maybe, instead of a punji pit, you could build a small ring of 2" thick spears made of saplings, dug into the dirt. Like a fort made of outward facing spears in all directions. It wouldn't have to be huge either.
 
I think I'd dig a hole with a long, narrow tunnel for an entrance. Cut an air vent in the top of it, sharpen up a study pole and use it for a poker in case the bears got curious.
 
Black bears can climb trees.....I could be wrong, but I don't think Grizzlies can. I somehow doubt that a bear will climb a tree to bother you though. You could use lashed "punji" sticks around the tree to deter a bear if you thought one would visit you. I would also think that you should drink a whole lot of water and urinate all the way around your area (don't know if it would help, but it wouldn't hurt) Best idea would be a log cabin. If it was warm, and not storming, a raft in the middle of a lake would seem a good proposition for what you are asking for....unless you are on the shores of ogopogo or loch ness :) (sorry, I couldn't resist)
 
Interesting, I like the punjis around the tree idea, it seems like the most sensible one so far. The only problem is getting up and down the tree though, maybe you could make some that were easy to pull out.

I think it mostly depends on the situation, time, equipment, energy etc.
 
Just make friends with the bears like that Grizzly Man did. I ran out of popcorn late in the movie, so going to the bathroom and waiting in line made me miss the end. But I am sure they all got along quite chummy.
 
bigbcustom said:
Black bears can climb trees.....I could be wrong, but I don't think Grizzlies can. I somehow doubt that a bear will climb a tree to bother you though.
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All bears (at least most bears) can climb trees, I think, if the branches will hold them and the motivation is high enough. Here's what Yellowstone says about it:

"Tree climbing to avoid bears is popular advice. but not very practical in many settings. All black bears, all grizzly cubs and some adult grizzlies can climb trees if the spacing of the branches is right. Running to a tree may provoke an otherwise uncertain bear to chase you. YOU CANNOT OUTRUN A BEAR! Bears can run up to 40 mph over short distances. If you do climb a tree, make sure you pick a good one and climb at least 15 feet up. "
 
bigbcustom said:
Black bears can climb trees.....I could be wrong, but I don't think Grizzlies can. I somehow doubt that a bear will climb a tree to bother you though. You could use lashed "punji" sticks around the tree to deter a bear if you thought one would visit you. I would also think that you should drink a whole lot of water and urinate all the way around your area (don't know if it would help, but it wouldn't hurt) Best idea would be a log cabin. If it was warm, and not storming, a raft in the middle of a lake would seem a good proposition for what you are asking for....unless you are on the shores of ogopogo or loch ness :) (sorry, I couldn't resist)
Click to expand...

Climbing a tree and placing obstacles to keep bear out of the tree, were my thoughts as well. One thing about a raft in the middle of a lake is that it could eventually hit shore while you're asleep.

Though not a for sure thing, I think that staying away from obvious food and water sources would be a good start to keeping bear away.
 
Thomas Linton said:
One with a BIG HONKIN' FIRE!
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I think Thomas is right. Aside from sleeping in a big tree:eek: a large, hot, and crackling fire would be best.... at least it would make me feel better. I have read that most animals have a instinctive "flee" reaction to fires. Of course I don't want to test it out a a large hungry bear any time soon;) :D
 
Uhh... ok... If bears enjoy punji sticks like we enjoy getting dozens of nails stuck through our feet and hands, sure.
 
Bears in California are often near cactus. Yet they do not simply wander into the spines. Could it be they would simply swat the pointed sticks aside? Could it be that the sticks will smell like human, having been handled.

Now if the bear was in a panic, being pursued, he might impail himself on punji sticks - or run off a cliff. Hunting you? Different story.

I have seen one open a locked Oldsmobile to get the bacon stored inside. He worked his claws into the gap between the door and the door jam and kept pulling, this way and that, until the door popped open. (We had tried to wrn the owner to sue the bear boxes, but he was confident that the bears were not smart enough to get in a car "without a key."

Caves that have been identified as sites of paleolithic human habitation typically have several common features, one of which is carbon from the fires at the mouths of the caves that insured their genes were passed down. This was what they did from their experience.
 
Het Guys....

If a bear wants you.. There isn't alot of things you could build in a true survival situation that will keep him out...

I've watched and have seen what black bears,,even small ones can do...

They move rocks 30-40-50lbs with a swipe of their paws..They move logs that it takes two men to move and they carry of steel 45 gal drums as if they were lunch pails.

A friends sister had her full sized chest freezer full of garbage dragged out onto the highway by a black bear...

They are simply the most powerful animals in the land, next to Griz, Polar and Browns.

You would have to literally build a shelter out of huge trees to keep them out..
They swim, they climb and they can out run deer at short distance.

ttyle

Eric....
 
Thomas Linton, maybe you don't fully understand what they do in Asia to keep away tigers. There is no "walking around" these things, it is like 4 feet wide, very dense with punjis, and encircles the entire camp.

If tigers can't get through it, I doubt bears can. They are fairly stupid.
 
The Masai use a fence made of very thorny bushes to ring their settlements to keep Lions and Hyena out, if you could find or construct a barrier of very sharp points it may deter a bear. But, some sort of physical barrier and a fire is probably the easiest to do.
 
Now if we can just find enough bamboo (or the functional equal) and dig that moat with the excavating tools we have. What four feet wide you say? How deep? 48 linear feet of four feet wide by only four feet deep would be -- hmmmm - 768 cubic feet - 28 cubic yards - 22 cubic meters - tons and tons.

Soil can be pretty rocky out west. Hard to dig even 12 inches/31 cm deep. Very little bamboo. Crooked pine and fir. Some alder and aspin in the valleys, but it's very soft wood.

Or you can build that fire. Pine and fir burn great.


Stupid bears.

Once upon a time, you threw a rope over a tree limb, hoisted your "bear bag," and tied it off to a tree - 6 feet from the trunck and ten feet off the ground.

Then Mr. Bear learned that severing the rope brought goodies from above.

So we go to bear cables and two bags balanced over the cable.

So Mr. Bear learns to climb the tree and shake the cable until goodies fall from above. Takes a while, but he is patient.

So people buy "bear-proof" containers. Not!

So they build "bear boxes" out of heavy steel set in concrete pads. Mr. Bear rushes at you from behind the said structure as you approach the "bear box." Most often, folks drop the food and run.

Trying to keep bears form associating people with food, they build a 12" electrified fence around the dump. Bears get shocked. :eek: Bears dig under fence.

Electric wire is placed in a mat six feet out from the base of the fence. Can't dig in, by golly. Bears wait in crowds at gate for trucks to enter and enter with trucks -- if the trucks enter.

Stupid bears or stupid people?

Circus trainer for RBB&B told me once (emphatically) that bears were lots smarter than the big cats (but he trained big cats 'cause he liked the challange). He could be right, I suppose.

All the big cats are pretty much gone from the eastern U.S. They got killed off. Lots of bears - many 1000's. They adapted. We had a 400 pounder sighted less than two miles form here last week. He was hitting all the bird feeders and garbage cans. He took the same route last year - north to south loop from up by Lake Erie down into the next county and back east towards Pennsylvania. Hides by day and eats by night. Maybe he went the bear graduate school. Ghost bear.
 
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