Define Custom

Chambers

Chambers

Joined
Jul 11, 2001
Messages
1,137
I was wondering, what is everyones definition of a true custom blade. I've bought exactly two knives from Laci Szabo each was made by a different maker (one by black cloud knives, one by Rob Newton) I think of them as "custom" but since anyone can drop the same amount of cash and get the same knife is it truly a custom?
Would a true "custom" knife only be one that you and the maker collaborated on? Custom to me means unique or individual. It seems that around here any knife that is hand made becomes custom. I'm just wondering if that's right. So is a custom a knife that's made specifically for YOU? and no one else?
It seems to me that there are two kinds of knives, custom and production but wouldn't that mean hand-made and factory produced?
Have I gotten myself cought in a useless loop here?
Am I over thinking?
 
If the knives are handmade, no two will be completely alike. Even if someone could purchase a knife of the same design, it wouldn't be the same.
 
let's not confuse these terms:

custom
customized
factory-made (production)
handmade

It's not a simple division of custom/production. That's a naive way to look at it (no offense intended).

Any knife whether handmade or production can be customized.

Also, does handmade mean no power tools were involved? If so, that cuts out about 90% of the knifemakers in business today.

See how the grey area gets bigger and bigger?

Best solution is to ask for a good explanation why a knife is considered custom or handmade. Then, judge for yourself whether you believe the marketing pitch or not.

Dan
 
I think the debate between "custom" and "handmade" etc. is a moot point..."custom" has become a prototypical term (like "Kleenex", "Velcro", "Rollerblades", and "tactical" :) ) to describe a category of knives...my definition: if it was made by the person whose name is on the blade, it's a "custom".

RL
 
Pretty much in agreement with Pendentive here:

Custom: A collaboration between maker @ customer, ideally unique at this point, although it can be a "based on..." knife. After the initial knife, any subsequent ones will not strictly be custom unless modification to the design, incollab with the customer is made.

Customized: Even easier, an existing knife, altered to customer specs.

Handmade: Mostly, what knifemakers do for shows & websites,made to a design, by one (or sometimes in collaboration with one or more makers) knifemaker, in small batches (this is where it gets tricky, how many would have to be produced to be production? does a maker keeping a profiled piece of brass to ensure all his blades are the same in order to fit the pile of 15 sheaths that his wife's made in her spare time make them production?)

Factry made: that wide grey line between handmade & factory made is somewhere I'll never go, so I don't really think about it.


There you go
 
Good point Dan. To clairify my post, when I say "handmade" it can mean that the knife was made with hand tools or powertools.
 
Originally posted by pendentive


Also, does handmade mean no power tools were involved? If so, that cuts out about 90% of the knifemakers in business today.

Dan
Click to expand...

Probably way more than 90%.

The topic of what constitutes a custom knife has raged on this forum since it started. Must the knives be made by hand or hand held machines, or is the use of CNC machines and CAD acceptable? Must the knife be a one-of or can it be a regular model that there may be hundreds of? Must the knife be single author, or can more than one person have had something to do with the manufacture (this argument does not include someone else doing the scrimshaw, engraving or carving)?

According to the Knifemakers Guild, a custom knife must be must be single author and can not be made with the assistance of automated, computer controlled machines, but they allow for it being a standard model of which there could be hundreds.

Many believe that to be a custom knife it must be a one-of, made particularly for the person purchasing that knife. If the same knife is made again it is no longer a custom.

Some people even believe that a production knife that has been ordered with some customization is a custom knife. This one I disagree with. I consider this a customized knife, not a custom knife.

I guess people will have to make their own decisions as to what they consider to be a custom knife. There does not seem to be a single definition that is accepted by everyone.
 
I was wondering, what is everyones definition of a true custom blade.
Click to expand...

Trying to define "custom" knife is like trying to catch the wind.
 
I think of custom and handmade as terms that describe knives made by a maker using hand tools and manually controlled power tools like belt grinders and drills that are not automated. The knives may repeat basic designs like drop point, clip point, etc., but being individually produced by hand, no two wiil look exactly alike. The process of making knives by hand from basic materials evolves, so that it is practically impossible to exactly duplicate a previously produced knife.
If the maker starts to use computer controlled/automated machines, then it becomes a production process. I guess if a special design were desired and set up for a customer, the product would be a custom knife. However if the design was then used to produce more knives, the results would no longer be custom.
This is all just my opinion which is biased by my being a knifemaker.
 
Originally posted by Will'em
so...you need a sail to define a custom knife?;)
Click to expand...

much harder to catch wind, than to break it...

:p
 
Kind of like pornography,can't define it but I know it when I see it.;)

What I really like is "semi-custom":confused:
 
So far, after years of watching this particular discussion... I've formed my own 'opinion'... (which we know everybody has, along w/a**holes... and they usually smell)...

Custom requires interaction between maker/manufacturer and customer. If I ask Nick Wheeler to make a variation on one of his camp/bowies, that is different from one he would have simply made (handmade) for sale to anyone, than I have entered into a deal for a 'custom' knife. If I ask Randall Knives to take one of their patterns and use specified handle/guard/steel choices... I've bought a custom-made knife, which happens to be from a production facility. And it would still be custom to me even if someone else happened to ask for those same touches.

Handmade refers to a knife whose major components are formed/fitted/finished by hand, by one or more humans. Now, this also includes makers like Dozier (I believe, if not, my apologies in advance!) who outsource the blanking of his blades, but the final assembly, fitting and finishing by hand. Essentially, where a maker can actually make ALL the parts by hand, assemble it all by hand and finish it all by hand (to even include grinding and finishing with grinders/polishers.)

A production knife is one where most of the processes are done without being touched by human hands until the final fitting or assembly is done.

And as I read this over, I wonder if I'm still not as clear on it as I thought I was.. :rolleyes:
 
Joe, you are right. after reading your post, I guess what I was describing was a custom, handmade knife rather than just custom.
 
Interesting thread. I will say what I think custom does not mean. I met a "maker" at a gun show whose business's name was &#@$(* Custom Knives. In speaking with him, I found out that he buys most of his knives aready profiled and ground and then sends them of for heat treating. He does do his own handles and finishing though:). For some reason after hearing that he claims to be a custom maker and then doesn't really make anything original, and then charges custom prices for stuff, I lost almost all professional respect for him.
I have made knives off and on for about 5 years. I am working to get better set up to make a better and more unique knife easier(building a gas forge, looking for a grinder and oxy/acet torch). If I ever do sell my blades at gun and craft shows, they will be made by me from start to finish. I would like to make a display with pictures and blades at different stages in the making process. I don't think the steel or methods a maker uses should be a big secret(although secret claims might sell more knives).
 
I think we can all see that this subject is still open to interpretation... even though man has been making knives for a millenia!

Lukers, to me, a guy who buys the parts and then assembles it isn't a maker of handmade knives... Which muddies things, especially when you look at Busse, Dozier, etc. Is it the same thing when one of them sends out a sheet of steel to have a CADCAM machine lazer cut the blanks out as it is when a hobbyist buys a blade and puts a handle on it?

To me, they are quite different... With the Dozier example, it's his blade design, and he grinds the blank to it's final shape and then he fits and finishes everything. I think most Busse's are that way, too. To me, that makes them, in essence, handmade. But if I buy a ready made blade, already profiled, sharpened and treated and just add a handle and sheath... I don't find that to be a handmade knife... What exactly to call it, I'm not sure.

And please, remember that all this is just my opinion, but it's one I've formed from reading about the industry, talking with makers and manufacturers and reading a whole lot on these forums...

And I will happily defer to those who've been around longer and are more intimately involved in the processes to add both to this discussion and to my own knowledge.
 
I would say that a "custom" knife need not be a one-off. For example, is there anyone here who would argue that the knives made by people like our own Tony Huffman aren't "custom" even though they follow a pattern? I have a few handmade knives, and I think of them as "custom," but others may not. To me, like others have said, if it is made by hand, by a person, one at a time (whether or not it follows a pattern), iy is a custom. Period. All the rest (i.e. whether or not you have any particular say in the shape and whotnot) is just details. Something to tell your friends that makes for a really good story about how you got the knife. I buy customs because I don't have anyone to hand down knives to me, and I'd like to rectify that for my own children. So, there you have it.

Sincerely,
Anthony
 
IMHO, and in basic lay terms, a custom knife is one designed and built by an individual knife maker in limited numbers. A one of a kind custom is just that, the maker does not make any others like it again. I think that Ken Onion, Tom Mayo, Larry Chew, Larry Davidson produce “custom” knives even though they do make more than one of a particular model. If it is a “one of a kind”, they will tell you that it is and you won’t see another like it.
We could have the same conversation on fishing rods.
;)
 
Originally posted by joeshredd
But if I buy a ready made blade, already profiled, sharpened and treated and just add a handle and sheath... I don't find that to be a handmade knife... What exactly to call it, I'm not sure.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a "kit" knife to me.
Has to be one of the least expensive ways to get a "custom" knife. ;)
 
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