Definitive answer on flicking from CRK

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Dec 3, 2009
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Last week I ordered a customized Seb directly from Chris Reeve Knives (Christmas gift for my father), and in the email process I asked Heather at CRK about wrist flicking. Here's an excerpt of the email containing her response:

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As for the flicking issue, what we discourage is the continuous (almost obsessive) wrist flicking that a few knife owners do over long periods of time. An example of this is wrist flicking the knife continuously while watching NASCAR every Sunday. Chris actually encourages a bit of wrist flicking especially when the knife is new or newly cleaned. It helps the lock settle. The reason the above mentioned flicking is discouraged is because it is unnecessary and will ruin your lock. The S30V of the blade is harder than the titanium lock and the constant banging of the two will cause the titanium to wear away.
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So there's your answer. Not quite a contradiction of the FAQ on their site, but I'll take Heather at her word. Flick your Sebenza once in a while if you like, and if you're in a hurry and need to get that blade out now, go ahead and flick away- just don't do it all the time.

And you've all probably heard this before, but CRK customer service is in a class of its own. Heather was courteous, prompt, helpful, and knowledgeable. She answered all my questions patiently (I had not ordered directly from them before) and expertly, and other than the Thanksgiving holiday, she was never more than a day behind my emails. Today, as I was out of the house, she kept my BlackBerry busy all morning confirming the details of my special shipping request. You may be able to find Chris Reeve pieces cheaper online, but if you can afford to pay full price, I highly recommend buying directly from CRK- if only to experience some of the friendliest and most professional customer service I've had yet.

ETA: In my opinion, I do not consider this an unreasonable restriction, or a cop-out on their warranty. By all accounts I've heard only good things from people who have sent their Sebenzas (or other knives) back to CRK for warranty service. This is merely CRK putting out in the open something that other makers prefer not to say out loud: hard use (or abuse) will wear down any knife, even a handmade titanium/S30V semi-custom masterpiece. The degree to which it wears down is the only difference, and as we've heard from many flick-happy Seb owners, CRK knives do stand up remarkably well to most kinds of hard use. This is just CRK covering their bases, and you should not take it as either a standoffish defense from Chris Reeve or an invitation to beat on your knife unnecessarily. Even Ernie Emerson, in his outright approval of wrist flicking, stated clearly that doing so will wear down the lock more quickly.
 
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Hmm...if the cause of the problem is the titanium lock, why not just upgrade the lock to a material that isn't as vulnerable to the S30V blade? Reliability/dependability should be priority #1.
 
Hmm...if the cause of the problem is the titanium lock, why not just upgrade the lock to a material that isn't as vulnerable to the S30V blade? Reliability/dependability should be priority #1.

I believe they heat treat the tang of the blade and the lock bar face to minimize wear. I don't think the tang of the blade is 58-59 RC.
 
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I believe they heat treat the tang of the blade and the lock bar face to minimize wear. I don't think the tang of the blade is 68-69 RC.

That is my understanding as well.

In all honesty, it sounds like wrist flicking isn't a big deal. They clearly allow you to do it once in a while, and even explicitly encourage it sometimes. We're not talking pot metal and cheap Chinese 440 here- this is high-end designer steel and solid titanium. It's really unlikely that normal use, including flicking, will measurably damage the knife. CRK are just covering themselves in the rare event that some guy who's flicked the knife a hundred times a day for ten years sends in a loose knife for service. Then again, what knife on earth could sustain that kind of abuse? And knowing CRK, they'd probably service the knife anyway- they'd just return it with a note saying "I told you so!"
 
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(Christmas gift for my father)

Your father is a lucky man!

why not just upgrade the lock to a material that isn't as vulnerable to the S30V blade?

What material would you suggest? S30V?

I believe they heat treat the tang of the blade and the lock bar face to minimize wear. I don't think the tang of the blade is 68-69 RC.

I don't think the rest of the blade is 68-69 RC as well...

Kind regards,

Jos
 
Your father is a lucky man!

Yes he is! All my family and friends are getting knives this year. A customized and engraved Small Seb 21 for my dad, a Mikov auto for my brother, an Emerson Mini 7 (identical to my own) for my friend, a Mini Commander for my other friend, and a good old Microtech Halo III for a federal agent buddy of mine.
 
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As for the flicking issue, what we discourage is the continuous (almost obsessive) wrist flicking that a few knife owners do over long periods of time. An example of this is wrist flicking the knife continuously while watching NASCAR every Sunday.

I'm not gonna say it.:D
 
Hmm...if the cause of the problem is the titanium lock, why not just upgrade the lock to a material that isn't as vulnerable to the S30V blade? Reliability/dependability should be priority #1.


Sounds like you are not going to be happy with any answer you get from CRK. Maybe the CRK products are not for you. There are plenty of other knife companies out there you can check with.
 
Hmm...if the cause of the problem is the titanium lock, why not just upgrade the lock to a material that isn't as vulnerable to the S30V blade?
I maybe a CRK newbie as I have only had my Umnumzaan for a couple weeks. But isn't that the point of the ceramic ball lock up used on it?
 
I maybe a CRK newbie as I have only had my Umnumzaan for a couple weeks. But isn't that the point of the ceramic ball lock up used on it?

As I understand it, the ball does three things: it makes the action smoother since it rolls instead of scraping against the blade tang, it increases longevity for the same reason, and it makes lockup quieter (in conjunction with the bumpers on the thumb studs). This should translate into less wear on the lock bar, but keep in mind that the ceramic ball itself will also wear down slightly over time.
 
As I understand it, the ball does three things: it makes the action smoother since it rolls instead of scraping against the blade tang, it increases longevity for the same reason, and it makes lockup quieter (in conjunction with the bumpers on the thumb studs). This should translate into less wear on the lock bar, but keep in mind that the ceramic ball itself will also wear down slightly over time.

Are the locking surfaces on the blades just as hard as the rest of the blade? If so, this would naturally wear the lock bar because titanium does not get as hard as these blades. The ceramic ball, however, should be harder than the blade and, if the ball is polished, should not really wear the blade.

I don't have any Reeve folders, but my Benchmade Pinnacle, which is very similar, has seen a little lock bar wear over time. I cringe when people flick it open. It seems that they think they're all bad a** by doing so. The problem with my Benchmade is that the lock bar seems to slip a small bit if I put pressure on the back of the blade.
 
Could you please tell us more about how you customized the knife for your father?
 
Could you please tell us more about how you customized the knife for your father?

Sure, it's nothing too intense. Just replacing the standard blue thumb stud with a silver one, and adding another stud on the reverse of the blade to make it ambi. I also had them engrave on the handle a unit motto from my dad's time in the service.
 
Sure, it's nothing too intense. Just replacing the standard blue thumb stud with a silver one, and adding another stud on the reverse of the blade to make it ambi. I also had them engrave on the handle a unit motto from my dad's time in the service.

Very nice. Thank you.

I have always preferred the silver thumb lugs as well.
 
Hmm...if the cause of the problem is the titanium lock, why not just upgrade the lock to a material that isn't as vulnerable to the S30V blade? Reliability/dependability should be priority #1.

The choice of the materials in the lock (in all designs, period) is made with many tradeoffs in mind. Titanium has a great strength to weigh ratio, has memory (when deformed like we do when we disenage the lock, it springs back into place), corrosion performance, machinability, toughness, etc. Its disadvantages include being expensive, and for this application, is softer than the mating material. CRK goes to the expense of using top quality materials, and heat treats the Sebenza lockbar to increase the hardness of the lockbar. As a result, it is exceedingly wear resistant. I've been EDCing my regular Sebenza since 1996, and yes, occasionally wrist flick. The lock has NOT worn significantly in all this time -- still between 50% and 75% lockup.

mrpinkbullets said:
As I understand it, the ball does three things: it makes the action smoother since it rolls instead of scraping against the blade tang, it increases longevity for the same reason, and it makes lockup quieter (in conjunction with the bumpers on the thumb studs). This should translate into less wear on the lock bar, but keep in mind that the ceramic ball itself will also wear down slightly over time..

The Umnumzaan ball does not roll -- it's stationary within it's mounting. It's properties are such that it is exceedingly tough, and harder than S30V. By using the ball in the Umnumzaan lock, CRK no longer needs to heat treat the lockbar to achieve wear resistance.

Bottom line -- do not worry about lock wear on CRK folders. With 34 years as as a premier knifemaker and 22 years inventing and evolving the integral lock (aka the framelock) design and manufacturing process, Chris knows how to do this stuff better than anyone else on the planet.
 
My goal is to own an Umnumzaan after I graduate college! It's simplicity is beautiful! Someday...
 
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