Demo knives by Queen and Ontario

[Bartleby]

I was disappointed a while back when I purchased a Marbles 278 and discovered that the caplifter had to be user modified to function as a caplifter. I wondered why the change to the Camillus 1760 had been made when copying the design.

While looking into getting an Ontario version a while back, I found that these are no longer being produced. I did however, stumble across a similar knife made by Queen in 1986 only, marked Q 1986, which was very close to the Ontario knife. I purchased the Queen knife at a local pawnshop for ten dollars, took it home and discovered that it too was not quite up to opening bottles.

I dug out the Marbles knife, and sure enough, it was nearly a twin to the Q 1986 knife. About 1/4" shorter than the Camillus, offset blades, and very similar geometry on the screwdiver/ caplifter and bottle openers.

The Q 1986 seems to have followed the Mil-k-818D specs from 1984, and the drawings indicate changes to the Camillus design that were carried over when the Marbles copy was made. My guess is that these changed were made to make the tools a little stronger, but had the unintentional effect of making the caplifter at times non-functional. I am also guessing that the Q 1986 version was made on the tooling later used by Ontario for their 8980 version (which may have had a few more finishing steps done). The Queen version seems to have only been made in 1986. The one I picked up seems not to have been fully finished, but I don't want to generalize based on one example.

Does anyone have any photos of either the Queen or the Ontario versions, especially with the blades opened? It would be interesting to make some comparisons. Thanks!

 

[Bartleby]

I checked with the Ontario knives subforum, and it seems that indeed Queen made the now discontinued Ontario 8980 version so they should be identical.

 

[Bartleby]

I finally turned up an Ontario 8980, and compared it to the Queen Q1986 and the Marbles 278. Sure enough they are all nearly identical, the caplifter not working correctly on any of them! The Marbles 278 is a very close copy of the Ontario version, including this design flaw.

From what I can surmise, the Queen version from 1986 made changes to the Mil-k-818 to increase tool strength, as well as increasing the distance between the tools by adding thicker liners, and mechanical crinking the can opener and awl more severely. For reasons unknown, the Queen contract was not renewed. Based on the example I have, fit and finish was very sub par, and the cap lifter did not function (in the specs, there are test criterion from all the tools but the caplifter).

The Camillus version is discontinued with the factory closing in 2007. The Ontario version does not appear until late 2009 (at least I can't turn up any earlier). The F&F on this version are better, and all of the implements are made of thicker material, but the hook on the caplifter is still too thick as it comes from the box to pop that top! The Ontario version does not seem to have been widely popular, reviews point out nail breaker springs and sharp corners. There were (and are) Camillus knives still in the pipeline for less money than Ontario was asking. Production seems to have ended in 2015, although some were sold as factory seconds by Ontario until 2016.

The Marbles 278 version is a very direct copy of the Queen/Ontario camp knife, including the poorly redesigned caplifter.

It is interesting that Colonial chose on their 2205 Military Scout knife to use tools that seem based on the Bear & Son series of Scout knives, rather than going for a direct copy of any previous Mil-k-818 version. This was a wise move, given the design flaw that was continued by Marbles in their version. I did contact Colonial about the change to the shorter screwdriver blade, and I was told that the shorter blades were used on a different version of a scout knife that had been made previously. I can only speculate at this point that perhaps this is a result of collaboration between the two companies in the knife's production. It is rather odd that Bear and Son discontinued all versions of 4 and 5 blade scout type knives at nearly the same time as Colonial introduced the 2205.

 

[John A. Larsen]

I have one made by Queen. The blade and awl are easy to open, maybe too easy. The screw driver/cap lifter and the can opener are EXTREMELY hard to open. I can only get them open if I use a screwdriver on my Swiss Tool, and even then it is hard. John

 

[Bartleby]

I have one made by Queen. The blade and awl are easy to open, maybe too easy. The screw driver/cap lifter and the can opener are EXTREMELY hard to open. I can only get them open if I use a screwdriver on my Swiss Tool, and even then it is hard. John

At first glance, I initially had thought that my Q1986 Queen had carbon steel components, as the awl, caplifter/screwdiriver, and can opener were all left in "as stamped" condition, giving a grey matte look at the tangs. The spring tension was about right on all of the tools, but the kick on the tang of the awl had to be filed so that the point was not well above the handle! Little wonder that they were only made for a year!

The Ontario 8980 version I have was finished to about the same degree as a Camillus, the spring on knife blade being a bit weaker than the others, but within the boundaries of toleration. I have seen reviews on line of the Ontario that indicate that difficult or nail breaking springs were not unusual on the caplifter/screwdriver and can opener blades, quite likely the ones returned were the source of the factory seconds that were sold at the end of production.