Desert knife needs?

psy-ops

psy-ops

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Sep 27, 1999
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I have never been to a desert, unless you count Joshua tree.

What types of shelter can one build? What are the knife needs there? I would imagine a machete is not one's first choice.

Thanks
 
Maybe a little clarification of what kind of desert is in order. The desert can be quite different depending on region and elevation.

I've lived in the SW desert my whole life. In many parts of the SW you will find a variety of terrain/Vegitation. In lower desert I like a small machete and a SAK/mora. There is little need to chop and most of the lower elevation desert is filled with Mesquite/Paloverde deadfall. Shelter is easy to make. Cordage is abundant as is quite a bit of food. 2000-4500ft about.

Above 4500 ft you get into scrub oak/juniper desert. Good abundant life and variety of plants. Larger Deer and animals. I like a decent fixed blade and a small hatchet here.

Above 6500-7000 you begin to get into pine and the axe is king.

These are estimates. I have never had a problem with food or shelter in the desert. If you can only find water.....

If you are interested in any details let me know.
 
There's not much to cut. Typical knife uses include picking splinters and cactus needles, opening foil food packs, cleaning game, and cutting moleskin. In fact, in the years of working in the desert I rarely used a knife at all.

Shelter? Whatever you bring with you. There are often overhangs and rock shelters, but you take a real risk with contracting diseases from rodents that also live in the rocks. Hauntavirus, plague, etc.
 
Fieldtestornothing said:
Maybe a little clarification of what kind of desert is in order. The desert can be quite different depending on region and elevation.

I've lived in the SW desert my whole life. In many parts of the SW you will find a variety of terrain/Vegitation. In lower desert I like a small machete and a SAK/mora. There is little need to chop and most of the lower elevation desert is filled with Mesquite/Paloverde deadfall. Shelter is easy to make. Cordage is abundant as is quite a bit of food. 2000-4500ft about.

Above 4500 ft you get into scrub oak/juniper desert. Good abundant life and variety of plants. Larger Deer and animals. I like a decent fixed blade and a small hatchet here.

Above 6500-7000 you begin to get into pine and the axe is king.

These are estimates. I have never had a problem with food or shelter in the desert. If you can only find water.....

If you are interested in any details let me know.
Click to expand...

TFN, I appreciate the clarifying question. I am interested in all types of deserts. So what ever experiences people have had in deserts I would like to know what their knife needs were.
 
Les Stroud just used his multi tool in the sonora. IMO a machete is usefull everywhere. Much ligher than a axe and almost as good. I use one here everyday im in the woods in IL (almost everyday)

He needed the blade to take appart some cacti and the plyers worked well too.

You shouldnt need to baton to get to dry wood so maybe you wont need a busse. I would take my standard Randall Made model #1 (but I carry this everyday anyhow:D)
 
I'd say a good multi tool, handy anywhere and a machete. Light, good reach, able to chop the plats you are likely to encounter. And Joshua tree is definatley a desert!
 
If memory serves me I think Cody Lundin mainly uses a Mora, he has probably forgotten more than most will ever know about desert survival, and other survival situations too......now that's just my opinion of course, everyone has their "go to" person, he's mine for this type of question regarding desert training. Google his website, he's got some good info. and some books too if you're not already familiar with him.....hope this helps some.
 
Personally, I like a long knife and set of BBQ tongs. Reason being, just about everything is hostile and has needles, stingers, etc. A long knife keeps your hand away while cutting and BBQ tongs keep your hand away when grabbing.

This is one of the few times I'd say a 12" machete may be your best friend.
 
I hike and camp in desert areas for the most part, and that's why I generally carry a knife with between 3" - 5" blade. If I were stranded, shelter and water would be top priority.
The terrain varies where I go, but there is always lots of rocks, scrub brush and a few trees. If i needed to gather shelter or fire materials, a small knife works fine. But I always carry a GI poncho and a space blanket for shade/shelter and LOTS of water. Two quarts of water goes down awfully quick, even on a leisurly morning hike.
 
hey thanks to all. I read a post asking about a desert survival knife and I wondered what it would entail. I got soem good answers. I will check out cody site.
 
dave alloway has a book on desert survival, his favorite knife was a cold steel srk, he did exteneded trips in austrailia and the southwest and this was all the tool he needed.

alex
 
tknife said:
I hike and camp in desert areas for the most part, and that's why I generally carry a knife with between 3" - 5" blade. If I were stranded, shelter and water would be top priority.
The terrain varies where I go, but there is always lots of rocks, scrub brush and a few trees. If i needed to gather shelter or fire materials, a small knife works fine. But I always carry a GI poncho and a space blanket for shade/shelter and LOTS of water. Two quarts of water goes down awfully quick, even on a leisurly morning hike.
Click to expand...

My thoughts are pretty much exactly the same as Tknife's. There isn't a whole lot that needs cutting, definitely not chopping, in the desert. The largest fixed blade I carry when out and about for multiple days or even weeks in the desert is a Fallkniven F1. More often than not though, it's the Victorinox Farmer that sees the most use.
With dried seasoned hardwoods, even scrub, the small saw seems to be alot more productive when it comes to shelter building or harvesting friction fire materials.
In my opinion, a knife for the desert should be; Light-because you'll want to save weight anywhere you can in gear, for water. Sturdy but not overbuilt-most quality knives, even Moras suffice here. Comfortable-to use and something you're familiar with.

Shelter and water are the big priorities, if ya got those, it's pretty much a piece of cake. Wickiups, lean-to's, etc. are all easy to build with very small and very little wood. Exploiting natural shelter is the best bet though if you can(next to carrying a poncho/tarp), since it'll conserve energy and water.


Gautier
 
I would imagine that the only possible use you may have for a big knife is to use as a shovel for digging or to build a sunken shelter. Seems like there are better tools available though.
 
I've been to several "deserts" and they all had some type of vegetation...Eastern WA, northern Peru, South Texas/Southern Arizona, the good'ol Mojave resort of the National Training Center in CA, NW Egypt, Central and Northern Iraq...I guess I haven't been to a true all-sand/no vegetation desert:confused: Egypt was the worst...rocky soil, little vegetation and little to no natural sheltering areas. There were some pretty large sand dunes and the Egyptian Intel Officer that was giving us a "tour" explained that the dunes play hell on your maps because they will actually move around and change your topo contour readings from what should be on your map to what you actually see. I do agree that a digging tool is pretty useful, but I still think a large blade/machete could do double duty for chopping or digging as needed.

The desert is one area where you really need to make sure you have the right "essentials" when you venture out. Shelter is definitely one of them. I've frozen my ass off in every "desert" I've been too except when I was in AZ for a short time. One NTC rotation to Fort Irwin, CA for 45 days of playing started out in May and ended in the middle of June. It was 16 degrees the first night and was 116 degrees at the peak of the day before we finished. The sun will beat the crap out of you and you need to protect yourself. One interesting thing to note is that we use "solar shades" in Iraq/Afghanistan for all our commo systems. It's a two-layer shelter (about a foot of separation between the two) that will trap a layer of air and decrease the temperature within the shelter. We noticed temperatures as much as 10-15 degrees cooler. Digging a trench to lie in will also help decrease the temperature. The wind is the killer for me...it'll rob your body of water and will freeze you at night. Most places I've been have been pretty rugged terrain with gullies, rock outcrops, draws, riverbed banks, etc.

ROCK6
 
If it was up to me i would say a machete and a Mora or a multi tool... You want to keep your hands away from most things and a machete helps you do that. A Mora would do everything else. A Multi tool also offer you the saw. I spend about 8 days in the Anza desert and came back last week.. I could do anything i wanted with a bushman alone.. Remember that most of the time its not easy to get enough material to build a shelter but there would be lots of places to just settle down for the night. What ever you do carry twice as much water as you think would you need. Some way to stay warm on winter nights and a shelter from the sun in the summer.

Sasha
 
I agree that Joshua Tree is a desert. I was there and at Anza-Borrego when I lived in California. Since then I've also been to the Painted Desert and the Grand Canyon. But most of my experience has been in Northern New Mexico in the vicinity of Los Alamos. We have big elevation changes within an east/west range of about 20 miles. The lowest elevation is to the east on the floor of Rio Grande Canyon (5400 ft) and the highest is to the west at over 10,000 ft in the Jemez Mountains. The town of Los Alamos is at 7500 ft and is located just east of the Jemez mountain foothills.

So the terrain here ranges from juniper scrub, to pinon-juniper forest, to Ponderosa Pine forest all the way up to fir, spruce and aspen forest. Lots of variety.

When I select a knife for a trek, the choice mostly concerns what other equipment I'm carrying, how long I plan to be in the wild and how well I know the area. Here's a list of some of the knives I have carried, starting with the lightest and ending with the heaviest:

Victorinox Hiker (Always with me)

Erickson Mora 510

Kellam Puukko

BRKT FT Kephart

BRKT Aurora

Cold Steel SRK

Busse SJTAC ETS

Busse Hell Razor

Condor 12" Inca Machete

Swamp Rat Ratweiler

Swamp Rat Rat Mastiff

Granfors Bruks Wildlife Hatchet

There are a lot of other options in between these, of course, but the size and weight ranges are appropriate.

As a general rule, the more carefully I have selected my gear, including an ultra light shelter, the less need I feel for a large or heavy knife. For example, I took the Erickson 510 with me for a 3 day trek in the grand canyon.

Anytime I am on a short hike with minimal gear I tend to carry a larger knife in case I may need to construct a shelter, or dig a hole for shelter or clean water (ala Survivor Man).

Another factor I have not mentioned yet is the possible need for a weapon for use against 2 or 4 legged critters. You are on your own in the wild. I am licensed to carry concealed, and I do so where ever it is legal. In National Parks or Monuments where guns are still illegal, I will carry one of the larger knives mentioned above.

One final comment. That 12" Condor blade is a real winner. It can clear brush, chop wood (no need to baton), and be used as a defensive weapon. And, it's relatively inexpensive! :D
 
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I grew up in Arizona and coastal to inland southern california. An amazing array of different microenvironments. My choice would be for lowlands a good basic 4-6 inch cutter fixed blade, a good scraping edge is useful on the spine. I'd also carry a SHORT machete, or machete-like knife. This is an environment where an E-tool is going to be worth the carry weight.

Upland, once you start getting into trees, you will be dealing with some machete-proof stuff. I'd definitely want something like a GB SFA or collins full size axe. In fact, growing up, a standard collins and an E-tool or larger T handle shovel were in every car and truck we had.

Oh yeah- i want to emphasize something HighDesertWalker mentioned- the SAK. I've carried one every day I could since i was about 8 and so I sometimes forget. You will really appreciate an SAK with tweezers and scissors while out bushcrawling.
 
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