desiderata for "tactical" folder.

[wutitiz]

"Desiderata" is a nice word that I learned back in my college days when I thought that the bigger the word, the smarter the writer. The def. from Merriam-Webster.com is:

de·sid·er·a·tum
Pronunciation: \di-ˌsi-də-ˈrä-təm, -ˌzi-, -ˈrā-\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural de·sid·er·a·ta \-tə\
Etymology: Latin, neuter of desideratus
Date: 1652
: something desired as essential

My desiderata for a "tactical" folder are not extreme, but few seem to meet them. Mine are:

1) black coating. DLC is the best, so that's what I want.

2) flipper--not for opening the blade, but to serve as a finger-guard. The sort on the CRKT M-16's are the best for providing a postive guard that won't let your finger slip onto the blade.

3) manual opening. I have had AO's, and too many times they don't open all the way. For something with even a pretense of SD use, I want near 100% reliability. Anyway, if a spring is not absolutely necessary, I say get rid of it.
4) pivot bearing. IKBS, Maxglide or similar. The addition of this makes a manual opener almost as fast to open as an AO.

5) tip-up carry clip. Also contributes to faster opening since you don't have to shift your grip as much. A lot of knives are not well-detented enough for this. The blade can accidentally open in your pocket if you run or jump.

6) light weight. For a knife with blade length of around 4 inches, I look for no more than 4 oz. For 3.5 inch blade, about 3.5 oz. Lots of knives are unnecessarily heavy and beefy in areas where they will not break anyway.

Ideally it should be ambidextrous, but that counts out frame/liner locks, so I don't include it. I gather that the axis locks are ambi, which is a huge plus. However, even liner locks are non-ambi only when it comes to closing, so I can accept that. Blade steel is low on the list, but since S30V is widely available and better than VG-10, AUS 8, 154 CM, etc, why not use it?

The closest to my specs that I have found is the Darrel Ralph 'Trigger' model, so that's my EDC. Its 3.37" blade also meets legal limits in my area.

I must mention that I don't really like the term 'tactical' folder. I consider it poor usage, since tactics lie in the brain, not the knife. I prefer 'sport-utility' folder (coined by poster Elkins45).

So, what are your desiderata for a sport-utility folder?

 

[Masteroffajitas]

I would like one of those.

 

[cutter17]

I'm sorta opposite and I would rather the extra weight. I have just talked with Pat Crawford this morning and he is holding one of the Bob Kasper Commemrative Kasper folders for me, plan on giving it as a Christmas present from me to ME. These are built just like the first ones Pat built years ago. He is using S30V in these, but everything else is as the original. To me this is one of the epitome's of the Tactical Folder.

 

[tirod3]

1) black coating. Useless. A subdued matte finish, or just the oxide heat treat residue is ok. If the blade is closed and stowed in the pocket, reflection is nil, and a lot smaller than watches, glasses, etc. So, colored blades aren't really necessary.

2) flipper-The sort that won't let your finger slip onto the blade. Really unnecessary, as the grip surface does more than a flipper. If your hand is really that loose, it will go right past a flipper anyway. I question why the impact force was necessary to begin with.

3) manual opening. No problem. Autos and AO's are overpriced gimmicks.

For something with even a pretense of SD use, I want near 100% reliability. Oh please don't go there. There are no good SD uses of a knife, and 100% reliability cannot be achieved. Something can always go wrong.

4) pivot bearing. IKBS, Maxglide or similar. The addition of this makes a manual opener almost as fast to open as an AO. Fractions of a second is not a factor, especially in SD. Self awareness is much more important.

5) tip-up carry clip. Some people have to shift their grip tip up or down, and tip up is usually the most likely to open up for the blade to slice your hand on retrieval.

6) light weight. Excess weight is a detriment, but most G10, Al, or Ti slab knives don't have the problem. It its not made from those, it's probably not so good.

Ideally it should be ambidextrous, But that doesn't happen if you choose a framelock or linerlock for other superior features. It's not a critical factor.

Blade steel is low on the list, A good blade steel and top of the line heat treat is paramount, along with other top level materials. Otherwise, any 420 blade with FRN would be just as good, and the details aren't worth bothering over.

I must mention that I don't really like the term 'tactical' folder. I consider it poor usage, since tactics lie in the brain, not the knife. I prefer 'sport-utility' folder (coined by poster Elkins45). I agree completely. Too bad the marketers define the terms for us.

Actually, this is a wonderfully thought out and well examined set of criteria. If more buyers spent this kind of time and thought, there simply wouldn't be some of the overhyped junk on the market. But we'd miss out on some great ways to separate the goats from the sheep, too.

I prefer a flatground, drop point, framelocked, titanium and G10 folder, with choil and clip. I wish it was point down, I got used to it. The detent is still pretty stiff after two years. I stick to those features looking at new knives, and this particular design, ten years old, is still going strong. Most of the other stuff I see now is still gimmicky and trying to turn over new trade without any improvement.

YMMV.

 

[moonwilson]

For a "tactical folder"? Useful features include:

1) Blood grooves
2) Serrations
3) tanto points
4) blade coatings
5) chisel grinds
6) glass breakers
7) cord cutters
8) CO2 cartridges for injecting bad guys, Dig Dug style
9) lots of logos and writing on the blade
10) Don't forget a tough-sounding name- bonus points for including the word "extreme"
11) Automatic opening
12) anodized aluminum handle scales

 

[knivesandguns]

I dunno if this is a "try to find me a knife with these specs," but here's one for the heck of it.

Tanto Groove by Kershaw is your closest bet. I took of the G-10 scales, and you don't know it is in your pocket. I think it is a fraction too heavy than your specs, but I think you'll love it. Flies open faster than an auto, frame lock, DLC coated blade and handle.


Kershaw and Benchmade have knives that I like--specifically, the Leek, Blur, Groove, Spec-bump, ZT 0400, ZT 0300, BM 610, BM 520.

 

[A.P.F.]

It sounds like one of these may be in order.

 

[Jake Bauer]

I'm going for a Black Spyderco Endura 4

 

[Outdoors Fanatic]

"Desiderata" is a nice word that I learned back in my college days when I thought that the bigger the word, the smarter the writer. The def. from Merriam-Webster.com is:


My desiderata for a "tactical" folder are not extreme, but few seem to meet them. Mine are:

1) black coating. DLC is the best, so that's what I want.

2) flipper--not for opening the blade, but to serve as a finger-guard. The sort on the CRKT M-16's are the best for providing a postive guard that won't let your finger slip onto the blade.

3) manual opening. I have had AO's, and too many times they don't open all the way. For something with even a pretense of SD use, I want near 100% reliability. Anyway, if a spring is not absolutely necessary, I say get rid of it.
4) pivot bearing. IKBS, Maxglide or similar. The addition of this makes a manual opener almost as fast to open as an AO.

5) tip-up carry clip. Also contributes to faster opening since you don't have to shift your grip as much. A lot of knives are not well-detented enough for this. The blade can accidentally open in your pocket if you run or jump.

6) light weight. For a knife with blade length of around 4 inches, I look for no more than 4 oz. For 3.5 inch blade, about 3.5 oz. Lots of knives are unnecessarily heavy and beefy in areas where they will not break anyway.

Ideally it should be ambidextrous, but that counts out frame/liner locks, so I don't include it. I gather that the axis locks are ambi, which is a huge plus. However, even liner locks are non-ambi only when it comes to closing, so I can accept that. Blade steel is low on the list, but since S30V is widely available and better than VG-10, AUS 8, 154 CM, etc, why not use it?

The closest to my specs that I have found is the Darrel Ralph 'Trigger' model, so that's my EDC. Its 3.37" blade also meets legal limits in my area.

I must mention that I don't really like the term 'tactical' folder. I consider it poor usage, since tactics lie in the brain, not the knife. I prefer 'sport-utility' folder (coined by poster Elkins45).

So, what are your desiderata for a sport-utility folder?

Just get a Benchmade 710-D2... Watch this excellent review: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm_5AoJxaTI

 

[Redguy]

wutitiz,

Alas for all the sorry people who went to war and won battles or died in the field for centuries, without a folder like this...

 

[wutitiz]

I think Steven Dick of TK mags once pointed out that we won WWI and WWII while carrying slip-joints. But he still advocates locking-blades.

Most of the soldiers back then were smokers, too. Today I believe it is frowned upon, especially for officers. Even a military as great as ours can learn a thing or two and improve over time.

 

[SIFU1A]

werent a lotta locking folders around in WW1 and WW2 so thats really irrelevant imho, whos to say if they could have gotten a axis lock (or whatever) they wouldnt have thrown the slippies away?

but anyway,

1) i dont like coatings on any knives, not unless i lived and worked on the ocean anyway.

2) flippers are ok, but not essential to me.

3) i'm fine with MO.

4) would be ok but not a deal breaker for me.

5) i very much prefer tip up.

6) i like lite weight stuff too.

i carry either a emerson specwar custom CQC13 or a spyderco Ti ATR pretty much excusively nowadays, and am very happy with both of them, they work great for what i need a knife for.

pat crawford makes good stuff too by the way, the perfigo and kasper are great knives, i have a ti kasper and a perfigo and like them a lot too, only con is imho they are tip down, i dont like that, as far as opening in your pocket easier if its tip up the only knives that has happened to me with were both tip down lol, a spyderco joht singh kalsa and a gunting,

 

[wutitiz]

It sounds like one of these may be in order.

I had not thought of that black doug ritter knife, but it does meet all of my criteria except for the flipper, and it does have the 'semi-guard'. It doesn't have the pivot bearing but I doubt that is needed w/ the axis lock.

Thanks for all replies and to Outdoor Fanatic for the link to the video on the Benchmade knife.

I still am persuaded of the value of a flipper, especially the Carson-type. Why is it that most people want a guard on a fixed blade, but nobody seems to think it necessary on a folder?

 

[firebert]

The Kershaw RAM (black version) actually covers all of those bases. It isn't technically ambidextrous but it is just as easy to use for lefties (maybe easier). It doesn't have IKBS, but I have yet to see a faster flipper (including AOs).

Comes in black, too.

 

[No_b00st]

I guess I have two different criteria for the folders that I spend my $$$ on. I buy knives in two categories - EDC knives and "tacticool" knives. I'm very honest about the intentions of these knives - EDC knives are going to be used for minor easy work where a knife is just handy all the time. I like my EDC knives to be about 3" in blade length, very well designed, well built, easily sharpenable, and with tip-up right-hand carry preferrably. I don't REALLY care if they open fast (right now my favorite EDC knife is the manual-opening $30 Kershaw Skyline, honestly) but AO is fun. I mean let's face it: an EDC knife costing more than, say, $20 is a mild extravagence. You can get a chinese Kershaw Vapor steel framelock at Wal-Mart for $20 that does everything you need a reliable EDC knife to do, reliable, and safely. So if you're going to spend more, you should enjoy the knife and how it performs!

The other folders I buy are "tacticool" folders, just because... well, I love knives. I will admit some self-defense pretenses with these knives, as it just provides me peace of mind having a useful self-defense tool on me, as it's better than... not having it! For me, though, i've already defined the perfect "self-defense" folder, and any others I get will be an extravagence. Spyderco Endura 4 with the Emerson Opener. 4-way carry means you can switch your technique on the draw with either hand to a forward grip open, or if you mount it backwards and twist the other way, a reverse grip when open. It's instantly open when it's out of your pocket, it's light and deft, it's sturdy, and i'm not worried about a backlock failing. Plus, it opens beer. VG-10 holds an edge well, and it's a hoot at parties (not.)

But as far as my requirements for that tacticool folder, in list form

-repositionable clip: Fit the knife to you, don't fit yourself to your knife.
-Good blade steel: I'm a snob. I don't want a tacticool badass mall-ninja knife with 420J2 or 440C or whatever BokerPlus blah blah. Real high-end steel actually stays sharp, and thus useful. I like VG-10, Sandvik 13c26, ZDP-189, composite steels, D2...
-Fast opening mechanism: like a thumb stud with proper leverage, a well-positioned blade hole, AO, or preferrably a Wave. (Like the E4 Wave.)
-One-handed OPERATION. Open AND close. Just more useful. I really like backlock Spydercos with the boye detent - these are easy to one hand open OR close.
-adjustability/screw construction - so you can take them apart to clean, maintain, modify, or whatever.
-No blade coatings. They just scratch and get ugly.

that's my $0.02.

 

[Capt. Carl]

I had not thought of that black doug ritter knife, but it does mean all of my criteria except for the flipper, and it does have the 'semi-guard'. It doesn't have the pivot bearing but I doubt that is needed w/ the axis lock.

Thanks for all replies and to Outdoor Fanatic for the link to the video on the Benchmade knife.

I still am persuaded of the value of a flipper, especially the Carson-type. Why is it that most people want a guard on a fixed blade, but nobody seems to think it necessary on a folder?

No flipper needed when you have an axis lock! The ritter is a great knife, I can vouch for that!

 

[wutitiz]

firebert, the Kershaw Ram is one that has occurred to me. I have heard it is very smooth-opening. No flipper but the finger-groove is deep enough to probably suffice. The wood-scale version is pretty, to my eye. Weight at 3.6 oz is not great, but not bad. DLC coating available. The triple thumb studs are a great touch.

That's pretty close to what I want.

 

[firebert]

filbert, the Kershaw Ram is one that has occurred to me. I have heard it is very smooth-opening. No flipper but the finger-groove is deep enough to probably suffice. The wood-scale version is pretty, to my eye. Weight at 3.6 oz is not great, but not bad. DLC coating available. The triple thumb studs are a great touch.

That's pretty close to what I want.

Actually it does have a flipper, it just hides behind the choil. The stock ones have G10 scales; I made some wood ones because I prefer the look and feel of wood.

Phillip

 

[wutitiz]

Did not realize that those were non-issue scales--beautiful job on those.

 

[CL01]

1) black coating. Useless. A subdued matte finish, or just the oxide heat treat residue is ok. If the blade is closed and stowed in the pocket, reflection is nil, and a lot smaller than watches, glasses, etc. So, colored blades aren't really necessary.

2) flipper-The sort that won't let your finger slip onto the blade. Really unnecessary, as the grip surface does more than a flipper. If your hand is really that loose, it will go right past a flipper anyway. I question why the impact force was necessary to begin with.

3) manual opening. No problem. Autos and AO's are overpriced gimmicks.

For something with even a pretense of SD use, I want near 100% reliability. Oh please don't go there. There are no good SD uses of a knife, and 100% reliability cannot be achieved. Something can always go wrong.

4) pivot bearing. IKBS, Maxglide or similar. The addition of this makes a manual opener almost as fast to open as an AO. Fractions of a second is not a factor, especially in SD. Self awareness is much more important.

5) tip-up carry clip. Some people have to shift their grip tip up or down, and tip up is usually the most likely to open up for the blade to slice your hand on retrieval.

6) light weight. Excess weight is a detriment, but most G10, Al, or Ti slab knives don't have the problem. It its not made from those, it's probably not so good.

Ideally it should be ambidextrous, But that doesn't happen if you choose a framelock or linerlock for other superior features. It's not a critical factor.

Blade steel is low on the list, A good blade steel and top of the line heat treat is paramount, along with other top level materials. Otherwise, any 420 blade with FRN would be just as good, and the details aren't worth bothering over.

I must mention that I don't really like the term 'tactical' folder. I consider it poor usage, since tactics lie in the brain, not the knife. I prefer 'sport-utility' folder (coined by poster Elkins45). I agree completely. Too bad the marketers define the terms for us.

Actually, this is a wonderfully thought out and well examined set of criteria. If more buyers spent this kind of time and thought, there simply wouldn't be some of the overhyped junk on the market. But we'd miss out on some great ways to separate the goats from the sheep, too.

I prefer a flatground, drop point, framelocked, titanium and G10 folder, with choil and clip. I wish it was point down, I got used to it. The detent is still pretty stiff after two years. I stick to those features looking at new knives, and this particular design, ten years old, is still going strong. Most of the other stuff I see now is still gimmicky and trying to turn over new trade without any improvement.

YMMV.

Interesting observations & I agree to most of them. Looking at the OP's question, I'd say that a DLC coated Kershaw RAM would fit his needs. It might not have #4's criteria (The pivot bearing), but keep in mind that you're talking about a specific manufacturers type of pivot (At least I believe so). I imagine what you want is a high quality pivot preferably with P/B washers (Phosphor/bronze).

As for wanting a manual opening knife, particularly a flipper, that does make sense to me. I don't think wanting a flipper to act as a guard has anything to do with your hand being loose & more to do with a hard stab that'll force your hand forward toward the blade. I don't think they're totally necessary, but I fully understand wanting one.

As to tip-up carry, this has always been an interesting topic. The most frequent reason I've heard/read for tip-down, is that the blade can open & you can stab yourself while reaching into your pocket to get it. Unless one is caring their knife in the left pocket (Totally possible & I understand, then) or is positioning the knife towards the front of the pocket, I don't see how the blade'll open since it's against the pant seam. Anyways, while I prefer tip up myself, I've found that I'm missing out on some very nice knives because of that.

Pertaining to a coated blade, a poster hit the nail on the head, IMHO. I don't think it's that you need a black blade, so much as you need a non-reflective one, so a satin or bead-blast finish will do the trick.

If a flipper's a must, then the Kershaw RAM is probably your best choice, but the Groove & Tanto Groove (DLC coating to boot) would fit the bill nicely, too. However, the Grooves are noticeably heavier than the RAM. Also, while axis/arc-locks are great, they do have a spring in them that CAN break. It's probably highly unlikely because the amount of opening/closing these springs can take, but it is possible.

If the idea of an axis/arc-lock is appealing, & they are a nice & strong lock, then check out the SOG Vulcans. It's a flipper with an arc-lock, tip-up carry (& a low-riding one at that), & laminated VG-10 blade steel with a satin finish.

Good luck on whatever you choose.