Design advice please

P. McKinley

P. McKinley

Joined
Jan 27, 2008
Messages
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I want to make a sheath that is half pouch, half pancake with a Thuya burl inlay and a removable belt loop(Mexican loop-ish style). I'm having trouble envisioning how the welt is designed on such a sheath, and where I could place the retaining stud to hold the loop in place.
This is the knife:


The red is the knife outline. The blue is my idea for the welt.


Any help would be appreciated.
Thank you,

_Peter
 
I think what you are asking about is a butterfly sheath?

Look at this tutorial.

http://demo005574.hgsitebuilder.com/sheath-tutorial

I've been doing more of these because they make for a great fit. I'll leave the advice on the Mexican loop to the others as I've never done one. Can you clarify on the stud placement? Are they not placed in the center? I've placed them dead center and I've placed them off to the side depending on where the strap wants it.
 
Peter, the attached photos are of a style that would work nicely for your knife including the wood inlay. The Mexican Loop would not be ideal for this style, however the inset flat loop would work nicely. The retention strap, if needed, comes out of a slot in the back side and is tucked between the lining and the exterior of the sheath. These sheaths are fully lined and all the straps, loops, inlays, and studs are completely covered by the lining in the interior.

Paul
 
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Paul, Anthony - Thanks for the advice.

Now I need a bit more. :o

I've had an on-going WIP thread over in Shop Talk detailing the construction of this knife and sheath: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1220897-Brute-de-Forge-Full-Tang-WIP

The sheath construction begins on page 3 and it shows that I have decided on a multi-carry pouch style sheath with an inlay. What I'm going for is a rig that can be carried either cross draw or vertical carry. I envision a cross draw belt loop with two slits on the back-side to accommodate a belt. I have drawn/cut out the template and completed the inlay piece.

However, my original idea of a sheath design such as you showed above is what I'd really like, and now, believe would work better than the full pouch style of the design shown in that thread.

Below is a photo of what I believe is needed for Paul's "butterfly" style. Is this a proper rendering?.....with the welt following the line of the blade and extending out to the mouth of the sheath on the blade edge... is this correct? How would the welt look on the clip side of the blade? Where would it terminate? To my eye, this design wouldn't give me the lines and proportions I'm looking for.

I've studied the tutorial posted above by Anthony Alms, and I understand how it works for that knife, but it just doesn't look like it would work for my knife with the raised clip I have.
Am I on the right track with my design, or should change over to the butterfly design?

I need some guidance as I seem to be having an extended senior moment with this particular project. I'm just not confident on this one.

Thanks folks.

Peter

Butterfly design drawing. The blue is the outline of the knife.


This photos shows the butterfly design along with the template, finished inlay, and the cut leather for possible pouch sheath:
 
Peter, your original design when translated to the butterfly pouch style is what I envision. The pattern on the left in the second photo is very close to your concept and shows the welt in pretty fair detail. The third photo shows the sheaths finished off of that pattern and they are very close to the overall concept as well. Take a look and see if the "light comes on". The blade shape for the knife for those sheaths is very close to your knife blade shape. In addition I will add a photo of my concept drawing (now the first photo)for that pattern and those sheaths which shows the various options I considered before finalizing the pattern.

You will note I used a Sam Browne stud (installed before the lining goes on) to provide for sash carry, which also satisfies to a great degree the cross draw option without all the attendant extra crap sewed on the back in the form of an angled belt loop. The vertical belt loop is inserted into two slots marked as four dots on the right side of the pattern in the second photo. They are secured between the lining and the exterior with a short stitch line. The loop lays very flat to accommodate sash or cross draw carry. Final photo shows this belt loop installed

Paul
 
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Thank you Paul.

This is the basic re-worked butterfly version. Yes I know its drawn backwards, for some reason I "see" things that way and nearly always draw in reverse. It is for a righty.

I think I have the welt correct. The inlay will fit quite nicely and it maintains the lines and proportions I'm looking for, and I like the sheath's overall lines much better than the simple pouch. I still need to place the stud, although it won't be a Sam stud, and draw in the belt loop similar to what you suggested. I haven't done much tooling at all, but I think I'll get the chance on the upper portion of the leather to do something simple and clean. I'll show more later

THANK YOU for your continued help. I admire your work greatly and your detailed instructions are enormously helpful.

-Peter

 
Peter, one word of caution on your re-worked pattern. If the blue line is indeed the profile of the knife, then the welt needs to be relieved about 1/8 inch all the way around. Check my proto drawing above for a visual of what I mean. Check the tracing of the knife and then the relation of the inner welt line to that all the way around in that photo.


Paul
 
I agree. That welt looks good for a stacked leather sheath (where the handle is outside of the sheath, and it's comprised of a back panel, full welt, and top panel), but it's too close to the blade for a pouch.

That's gonna be a really nice pair. Paul's got ya covered on design and pattern making. ;)
 
Thanks Anthony. This is turning out to be a fun project that is pushing my level of skill and imagination. I like that.

As I mentioned above I don't do a lot of tooling. So I'm using scrap leather to practice. I've selected a couple of tools from my limited supply that I think will work for this project. I have cased the leather, drawn out the basic pattern, and given it a few smacks. I have not cut out the inlay openings yet, or the inset belt loop along the lines of what Paul suggested, and I have not made the stud either.... next on the list....but, I have positioned a similar piece where I believe it should go.

This is what I have so far. PLEASE give me your opinions and possibly a few pointers. Am I on the right track?

Thanks soooooo much folks.

-Peter

I'll be using 6/7oz hide. This piece will be the real sheath:


Practice tooling with stud:


Inlay positioning:


My leather tools. I'm using the stamp at bottom right :
 
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Yes! Looking great and on course. Be very sure you relieved the welt from the knife profile as suggested above. Don't want any unwelcome surprises.

Paul
 
Oh yeah, that's gonna look great. 6/7oz is just a little thinner than I like to use, but it'll work great with an inlay, I think. Are you splitting, or using two ply of 6/7?

I love camouflage tooling. I like to have no separation between them, but that's just me, and plenty of guys do it just as you are.

Can you tell me more about the stud(s) that you are making? How are you turning them, and what are you making them from? Also, how are you attaching the two pieces? I've seen some awesome damascus pieces that were gorgeous. Always been curious about how they are attached though. My only experience is with screw backs. If I were making one I guess the easiest way would be to thread the inside to accept the male piece of a Chicago screw.

Looking forward to seeing this progress.
 
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