DESIGN CREDITS and the KNIFE industry

A

Allen Blade

BANNED
Joined
Oct 29, 1999
Messages
498
Hello,


Do you as members thinks its wrong for a Maker to be involved with a Production Company and then for them To Blatantly Buy a Knife from you, and then offer it as an
"ORIGINAL DESIGN", without Proper Credit for its design, or atleast a Royalty paid for said design??

Also is it Wrong to have said maker, basically Make your Company for you as far as doing your prototype work, making all the first models that made your company,,then not mention your Contribution to said company, as to make yourself look more important???

i mean its one thing to Take the credit yourself when you did it on your Own,,,,but i think it is not right to tell people
"Because our customers Demanded X model knife, we have came up with Model X"

when as the historical fact bears out that you Used a design made by somone else without Proper credit and Royalties.
And also make yourself out to have Come up with this or that when Factually all you did is exploit the makers talent without proper Acknowledgment.

Said company knows who they Are, and i dont think its Right at all!!!!!!

Thanks for your Input in advance.


Take care , Allen blade

 
Alan,
I am more than a little confused here.
First, let me say (as a collector and knife user) I believe I own one of your knives. At least that's how it was presented to me at time of sale.
In today's world, "if it ain't in writin', it didn't happen".
Somebody (I forget who) used to say "I would rather have the word of an honest man, than the signature of a liar on a piece of paper". If you got burned by somebody's empty words, you may be up against that 90's corporate BS that says, basically "too bad for you".
If you could elaborate (either here or 'off line') maybe we would have a better idea what you refer to.
 
Hello,

I think its best not to mention the name of the firm on this Venue.

it was just a General question to the membership if they think a Company doing this is Alright. And your right no agreement was made,because i figured said person was just buying them for pesonel Use,,,not to Copy.

Allen Blade
 
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[This message has been edited by automantic (edited 11 December 1999).]
 
I remain confused. I have no idea to what you refer.
If someone 'ripped you off' because you had no contract, agreement, or patent/copywrite to protect yourself, then you have my sympathy.
I recently learned this the hard way.
A handshake and a man's word are meaningless today. I hate most lawyers, but pay a good one and he'll save your butt. or, trust the rest of them, and they will burn you.
Post me privately if you want to elaborate.
 
hello,

I mean not just me personally , but as the industry as a whole.

Its like you have makers who Pay a Licence Fee to Spyderco to use the HOLE as an opening device, and then you have those who use the idea and, dont even ask permission.

or you have a a Company who likes a specific makers design, but figures they are too small
to take the larger Firm to court to fight it, if the company desides to Just outright steal the design.

I Caught some Slack for making the MEUK series Talonite prototype because it was, to some a Copy of the MADDOG Pygmy Atak.

Although when the person who bought it, who owns mad dogs , told me that it is tottally different, then that cant be a blatant attempt at a rip off,,in my opinion.

but if a Private or a Company ,Line for line and measurement for measurement, hole for hole, makes and markets a design of somone else without even the consideration of telling them or paying them Royalties, how could you have an agreement in the first place, if you dont know there doing it until its done.

What Recourse would you have.

Its Kind of Like the SMITH $ WESSON case
i have seen posts on concerning there Blatant copy of Mr Ralphs design.

just How do you protect yourself short of a Patent which is only good for so long anyway.

Ive had some problems in the past with this but it doesnt matter to me. im thinking more on Future things that i might do

sorry if it seemed i was trying to single out a specific firm. On my part this has happened to me with 2 different well known Companys. I wonder if its happened to any other Makers, in general or on this forum.

Thanks , Allen blade
 
In the knife industry or any other, if you have a valuable concept or design, you better be prepared to protect it with patent. Because, like it or not, "ownership" of that design may have to be proven in court.
Unfortunately, the big guys have more legal resources than most of us.
If your design was "borrowed" without your permission, I believe the burden is on you to prove it. That is where things get sticky (and expensive)
I don't think it is right, but it is reality.
 
Allen,

Your question is rather obscure due to your efforts to protect facts, but we have had similar threads here addressing the issues of design ripoffs. By and large the forumites took issue with outfits that took a maker's design, lock, stock and barrel, and produced a knock off. Those instances where features were used were much more problematic as without patent protection, features become public domain.

Sal Glesser and leaders of other companies have made it their policy to go after miscreants who rippoff their protected designs and design features. In like fashion any maker who enters into a collaborative arrangement with a manufacturer ought to cover their six with paper, be it a contract or whatever. If they don't, and get screwed, I guess they learn something. I'm not defending the cretins of such companies; rather I'm pointing out that a handshake deal is still difficult to prove in court.

The fact that the forumites represent not only a small sampling of knife nuts but an extremely well educated group at that translates to our comments being of an informed nature. John Q. Public is usually unaware of design infringements and shops what's available mostly by price.

Trust this is the issue you are really posing.

------------------
-=[Bob Allman]=-
..Rapid City, SD..

I did NOT escape from the institution! They gave me a day pass!

BFC member since the very beginning
Member: American Knife & Tool Institute; Varmint Hunters Association;
National Rifle Association; Praire Thunder Inc.; Rapid City Rifle Club;
Spearfish Rifle & Pistol Club; Buck Collectors Club (prime interest: 532s)
Certified Talonite(r) enthusiast!




[This message has been edited by bald1 (edited 12 December 1999).]
 
Mr Blade
The way you protect yourself is very easy now. Of coarse you need money to do it. Just get a secure key for your email. GO TO security and follow the link on your email system. It will help you find the answer to your problem.
Its called digital time stamping.
There is no protection from folks using designs. The problem is if you show the design to anyone or sell it ... without a patent and a non disclosure agreement you are without recoarse. Even then its only as good as the people involved. Kit Carson will testifie on this count...
If you do have a patent so .... you have to protect it. MONEY Talks
There are many ideas in all industries that are public domain.. because it was sold and not patented first. I do not know all the facts here so consult an attorney. And please dont quote me on these things . This is second hand info.. The best thing you can do is make the design or item . then give it to a patent guru to take care of the paper work . Dont talk about it or show it to anyone.

:] Good Luck

------------------
Web Site At www.infinet.com/~browzer/bldesmth.html
Take a look!!!




 
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