Designing a Flashlight. Suggestions?

Joined
Aug 14, 1999
Messages
254
I want a flashlight w/ the following features. Since I don't know of anyone who manufactures one like this, I'm going to make it. I'm just about electically illiterate, so any suggestions are welcome.

Want a flashlight that is designed just like the Energizer Double Barrel (smallest 4 AAA model), but MUCH brighter. In case you aren't familiar with it, here's a brief description:

1. Slender housing resembling the barrel of a double barrel shotgun. The thickness of the smallest model is roughly that of a AA battery. The lens is much larger diameter.

2. Double stem Xenon/halogen bulb. Want to change to a 100% Xenon high intensity bulb that is compatible with a 7.2 volt square NICD battery (the rechargable version of the standard 9 v). This battery, albeit small, is affordable enough to buy a bag full compared to what a Sure Fire rechargeable would cost. It also gives the flat area that makes indexing w/a handgun easier than the larger round tube.

3. Momentary switch mounted on the SIDE just behind the lens. For the types of holds that I prefer, this works while the butt cap switch and screw on lens switches do not.

Dilema:

-Since the profile of the smallest double barrel is thinner than the width of the square 7.2 NI CD/ 9v Alkaline, I think the easiest way to go is to use the larger model double barrel as a foundation and modify it. Didn't measure it yet, but inside diameter of barrels is slightly wider than 9v. Still has good grip/indexing qualities & relatively slender.

-I like the features of the UnderWater Kinetics model Mini 40, but its only problem is that it has a screw on lens type switch, not a momentary. I had a hard time finding a momemtary switch and ended up finding a long one I mounted on the tail of a Mini 40. I messed it up with a further modification and accidentally melted the threads w/a soldering iron. Its bulb is the kind of beam that I want (I think its a 6 volt 100% Xenon), albeit the lamp and lens is one piece unit.

You flashlight conesures, tell me if there is anything wrong with my plans:

1. Cut a 6 or 8 AA cell Energ. Double Barrel (DB) down to a length which allows just enough length to house a square battery and end caps.

2. Drill out the center portion that divides the two barrels, thereby allowing space to house the 7.2 NICD or 9v.

3. Tap the back of the barrels and reuse the screw in end caps.

4. Replace the existing lens with the Mini 40 or appropriate bulb. BTW, Does anyone know of an intense Xenon bulb in that voltage range that is double pronged base (? term) so that I can use the existing lens?

5. Solder wires of a replacement square battery hookup.

6. Replace high temp plastic lens cover w/a glass one if it melts.

-Before making any modifications to the housing, I'd like to try to hook up a higher intesity bulb to the 8 AA DB that I have. I believe that it is 6v w/ alkalines and almost 5v w/my AA NICDs. The bulb made for the 6 cell DB model burns hotter and makes a little more light, but not enough in its X/H design. Lasts supprisingly long though.

Thoughts/ Suggestions???????????????
confused.gif
smile.gif


Robert

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"But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword let him sell his garment and buy one." --Jesus Christ (Luke 22:36) See John 3:15- 18




[This message has been edited by EQUALIZER (edited 01-12-2000).]
 
i don't know much about electronics but i think that is the point. this being a knife forum and all................

*off topic ???*

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Knives and Cars...
Simple but EXPENSIVE.
 
It should be really really bright. Oh yeah, and shoot the image of a bat over the city....
 
I've seen great threads on flashlights here before. You'd be surprised, but in the past, there were a couple of long running threads that got into some details by experts that went over my head. If memory serves me, one of our great writers, knife expert, and "staff physician", Dr. Walt Welch, is also a flashlight expert. Maybe I'll be fortunate enough for him to see this and "shed some light on the matter."

Unocide,
Maybe I'm in the wrong part of the forum, but flashlights are one of those, excuse the expression, tactical tools, that accompanies the knife on our belt. If you know of a flashlight forum, would you kindly let me know and I'll check in there. Otherwise, I know I have some fellow knife enthusists that are experts in this field. BTW, When it comes to firearm training for defensive use, one of the first rules is to IDENTIFY THE THREAT. Is this not true for proper defensive use of knives in low light?......Hmmmm????.

------------------
"But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword let him sell his garment and buy one." --Jesus Christ (Luke 22:36) See John 3:15- 18




[This message has been edited by EQUALIZER (edited 01-12-2000).]
 
Robert; one thing you may consider is the heat generated by the xenon lamp. This may be hot enough to damage the reflector; you have mentioned replacing the lens, but in Mag Lights, the lens is not affected by the hot burning rechargeable (KSR series) lamps, but the reflector will bubble from the heat over time. Generally speaking, however, I think that xenon lamps generate less heat than the krypton KSR series, as the latter operate at higher amperages.

You may consider querying Carley Lamps, as they manufacture specialty lamps and reflectors for industrial applications. Here is their URL: http://www.carleylamps.com/

One other source for extra bright lights was provided me by David W. I plan to order some lamps from this company for use in the small Mag-Lights. Here is what David had to say in his e-mail:
.

My daughter was always taking my flashlights so I bought her one from Fred Meyer for $10. I noticed it was very bright for a 2AA flashlight and checked it out more. It turned out to have a xenon bulb according to the package and I pulled it apart to inspect the bulb. To my surprise it had the same T1 type that was used in the Mini-Mag. So I *borrowed* it and tried in my Mini-Mag. It worked! It was bright so I ordered some more for myself and her.

The number I called was 1-800-468-5252. I got that from the packaging. I think you need to specify the bulb you want specifically because they sell T1 vacuum bulbs also. Ask for "Brinkmann NexStar T1 Xenon 2.4V bi-pin bulb". I was specific because I wanted to make sure I got what I wanted. Here is a direct link to their webpage with that bulb:
http://www.thebrinkmanncorp.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&DID=17&Product_ID=511&CATID=2
http://www.thebrinkmanncorp.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&DID=17&Product_ID=511&CATID=2[/quote]

Perhaps this company can help you find the lamp that you require. Hope this helps, Walt
 
Dr. Welch,

Thanks! You always shed light on subjects of interests to me....even flashlights.
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I'm glad that you decifered my misuse of terms: ie. "double pronged base" = bipin, and sometimes I said lens when it should have been reflector.

I think that the 2.4 xenon bipin bulb you refer to is the one in my small 4AAA DB (parallel rather than series so 3v output w/alkaline bats. I'll double check on that. It IS impressive for such a small light. My local WAL MART just started carrying them. I think they say xenon, but if memory is correct, I think the energyzer web said xenon/halogen. Still something that ya wouldn't want to do an optical exam with.
wink.gif


My next step is to test the burn time with my 7.2 v NI CD on the Underwater K. mini Q40 xenon bulb which I think is around 6v. I'll also check your recommendations on the 2.4 and carley lamps. Thanks again

Robert
 
EQUALIZER,

Have you thought about the Sure-Fire or Streamlight tactical lights? The SF 3P, 6P or 8X should do nicely or the Streamlight Stinger XT. They are all Xenon and have momentary tailcap switches. Also the Streamlight Pro-Polymers have a momentary tail-cap switch. I have the 2AA and it is brighter than most 2AA flashlights. The beam is a little narrower than I'd like but it works. I paid $12.95 + $4 shipping for it. The Pelican Stealthlite has a switch on the side close to where I think you described where you want yours. But it is not a momentary switch but could be made so if you made the lever spring back.

Now about your design. I always like it when someone tries to come up with a better idea. But the 9V alkaline/7.2V nicad is a poor choice. They have a higher voltage but very low Ah capacity and discharge rate. The Energizer 522 alkaline has a 595 m Ah capacity. A good matching bulb for the alkaline setup would be 85% of the battery voltage or 7.65V. If you were to select a bulb combination for one hour runtime that would be .6 Ah draw. V x A = W so 7.65v x .6a = 4.6w. A bright light but nowhere near a Sure-Fire or Streamlight. I estimate a SF 6P to be around 7.5w. I'll look it up after I post this.

Also, that is if the 9V battery can put out .6 Ah. I doubt it because the Nicad is advertised at a .24 Ah discharge rate which is sometimes half of what it is capable of so .48 Ah is still short of the .6 Ah goal I set. And Nicads have better discharge rates than alkalines.

The 7.2v Nicad has even less capacity at 120 m Ah so that is out of the question.

AA cells seem to max out .6 Ah draw for flashlight bulbs. C & D cell max out at .85 Ah. Lithiums, Nimh, Nicads and SLA can goto 1.7 Ah and higher. AAA flashlights are typically sold with a .25 to .3 Ah bulb so a 9V which uses 6 AAAA batteries in series should use a .3 Ah bulb or less.

If it is a 6AA or 8AA Double Barrel you have I suggest cutting it down to fit 4AA batteries and rewire from series/parallel to series and use the bulb from 8AA Double Barrel. It is rated 3.1w. Less than your 9V/7.2 theoretical setup but would most likely work. And should last for 3-5 hours of use.

If you want to find other bulbs than the factory replacement look for T2 or T-2. That is the size Energizer uses in the Double Barrel.

------------------
"A knifeless man is a lifeless man"
-Nordic proverb
 
About the double screw in base...
How about a snap in base using the same
type of seal found in newer car under the
hood electrical connectors? I work at a
Dodge dealership and we hardly ever see
any corrosion at the connections. And I
am in the rust belt.
Just a thought.

Warhawk
 
David,

What you said makes sense. The Sure-fires are great and in the direction of intensity that I'm looking for but the reason I'm not going with them is:

-Tail cap switch. I want the side placement momentary button.
-Cost of lithium batteries. I have around 30 NiCds, mostly AAs, 8AAAs, and some 7.2. I don't mind a shorter run time...although 20min. would be nice, but I hate to invest in those lithiums.
-Cost of a rechargable sure fire is beyond my funds at this point.

I just got back from the Streamlight page and they look like they have some great options. I think one of their models compares to my Underwater Kinetics mini Q 40 (4 AA in series , not sure of the lamp assembly yet). It puts out the light that I want, more than my 8 AA DB, but doesn't have the momentary side switch. Thanks for the details. I'll look into it more. Check back if you have any more ideas for lamp replacement (or an equivalent bulb to the UK) in the DB.

Warhawk,

I'm not familiar with that cap. Can you go into a little more description?

Robert
 
A quick check of Surefire's website didn't help much. I don't see any specs except for lumen output.

Geez I didn't realize I sounded so spammy in my email to Walt. The bulb I was referring to in that email is a T1 bulb that also fits the Mini-Maglite. I went to order some more and they have them in stock but the delivery time is 3-4 weeks and I'm moving to Cali in Feb so I'll wait. They have a 2C T1 xenon bulb that I want to play with. The customer rep thought it had a higher amp draw so hopefully it will be brighter in my Mini-Mag.

There is a flaw in the Nexstar flashlight I bought for my daughter. The plastic base that holds the bulb is very fragile. Broke the first one rather easily and the second one has a poor contact. It blinks off and on while turning the head before it is fully on. So she goes through more bulbs than need be because the extra stress on the filament in turning it on. Other than that it is a rugged flashlight.

The bulb for the Nexstar is a T1. The one that fits the 4AAA Double Barrel is a T2. Big size difference. I would guess that the T2-2 halogen/xenon that fits the 4AAA would be slightly to moderately brighter than the Brinkmann T1 xenon bulb.

Any gas lamp whether it be argon, xenon or halogen will burn hotter than a comparable vacuum bulb because the gas conducts heat from the filament better than a vacuum bulb. What you need to watch is the wattage on your selected bulb. I don't think you need to worry until you hit 8w or more. The Maglites and Energizers are quality flashlights and should work up to 6w and more.

The only thing I can think of that fits your specs would be a Pelican Stealthlite rechargeable. It is a 4AA flashlight. If $60+ is too much get a regular one and buy a bulb/lamp assembly for the rechargeable. That setup would be about $30 considering you have the AA Nicads already. The switch would have to be modified to make it momentary. Off the shelf the Streamlight Stingers have the switch placement where you want it but I'm not sure how they work.

------------------
"A knifeless man is a lifeless man"
-Nordic proverb

[This message has been edited by David Williams (edited 01-13-2000).]
 
well. i have been here since last february and i must have missed the flashlight posts in the past.

oops...

------------------
Knives and Cars...
Simple but EXPENSIVE.
 
Walt,

Are those Carley lamps available for purchase online? I'm interested in acquiring a couple for my 6-C cell Maglite here, in case.
smile.gif


I have two pcs. of the older P-90 replacement bulb assembly for the SureFire 9Z Combatlight. Never really got to use them at all.. I wonder if there's a way to use them on the Maglite... It uses 9V, but I'm not sure how much amperage it requires. According to SureFire, these won't work with alkaline batteries, only lithiums... duh...

Dan
 
Danny C; send me a self addressed, prepaid padded envelope, and I will toss two Carley lamps, cat. no. 716 (for six alkaline cells) into it, and mail it back to you. I just happen to have two left over from my last order; some other poster wanted some, and I got a couple of extras.

The xenon star lamps from Carley, http://www.carleylamps.com/star.htm#Kyrypton%20Rechargeable%20Batteries , are terrific. They are just slightly less bright than the highest amperage lamp using rechargeable batteries, cell number being the same. Further, the xenon lamps last about 10-12 hours in 3 and 4 C or D cell. The rechargeable lamps really can't be used with C cells, even the high capacity C cells, as they can't deliver enough current. More precisely, they CAN actually be used; I used to do this for my 7 yo son, but the set up with C cells is not as bright as the same number of D cells.

I should make my situation clear on this; I am not a dealer for anything. I am a retired doctor. I do owe a lot to the forum, however, for all the information that I have received over the years, so I feel the forum has a payback coming. I will be glad to send anyone who wishes them two or three xenon Carley lamps, gratis, providing they meet the conditions I spelled out for Dan (SASE). Just contact me by e-mail. Yes, you can buy directly from Carley, but the minimum order is $50, thus I get extras when I order, for forumites in need.

If xenon lamps had been available when I started setting up MagLights, I would never have messed around with NiCds. As soon as the hi cap NiCds I have now wear out, I will stop using the rechargeable Krypton lamps. Some of the batteries have passed 15 years, and are still going, however.

A question frequently asked is can you use xenon lamps with NiCd batteries. The answer is no. Xenons are for alkaline use only.

Another frequent question is whether xenon lamps are available for AA and AAA MagLights. The answer is yes, but not from Carley. Here is the source, courtesy of David W; this is an exerpt of his e-mail to me regarding the AA replacement bulb:

The number I called was 1-800-468-5252. I got that from the packaging. I think you need to specify the bulb you want specifically because they sell T1 vacuum bulbs also. Ask for "Brinkmann NexStar T1 Xenon 2.4V bi-pin bulb". I was specific because I wanted to make sure I got what I wanted. Here is a direct link to their webpage with that bulb:
http://www.thebrinkmanncorp.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&DID=17&Product_ID=511&CATID=2
http://www.thebrinkmanncorp.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&DID=17&Product_ID=511&CATID=2[/quote]

Have fun, and keep light! Walt
 
Does anyone know what bulb the Streamlight Scorpion uses. I know its a pressurized xenon bi-pin and I'm guessing a 6V (?watt). The one I've got in the DB 8 AA is a T2-3 halogen-xenon. I'm wondering if I'd get maximum candle power from Scorpion's bulb with the DB using 1.25V AA rechargables.

I'm not so worried about melting the reflector as I can always replace it. I never used to like the bi-pin design, but they sure are a lot cheaper than the reflectors/lamp units, (albeit not as clean or bright). Does Carley (or anyone else) make brighter pure xenon bi-pin in the two voltage, wattage, Ah ranges that I need?

Last night, my sweetheart and I were getting out of our truck parked along a dark busy road. When she left the door open and leaned back in to get something a car passed just a hair's breadth from her door, even though there was nothing coming the other way and I was shining the little DB in the guys windshield so he would take notice and see her. I'm beginning to realize more and more just how important a good bright light is as a safety tool. The gun has its place. The knife has its place. The light is used and needed far more than the gun. They are great tools. Fun toys too.
wink.gif


------------------
"But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword let him sell his garment and buy one." --Jesus Christ (Luke 22:36) See John 3:15- 18




[This message has been edited by EQUALIZER (edited 01-14-2000).]
 
It is a ribbed neoprene (I think) connector.
Not a cap, but should work as a waterproof
seal for the end cap on your flashlight.
If you look under the hood on any modern car
the connectors are oval shaped. (Usually.)
Just unclip one and pull it apart. You will
see how well they seal.

Warhawk
 
Hi Doc Walt!

Gee.. that's a very generous offer.. Dunno what to say... Thanks!
smile.gif
I'll email you shortly.

Thanks again...

Dan
 
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