designing a new sword, some ideas/advice?

J

jason41987

Joined
May 9, 2012
Messages
174
id like to soon decide and make my own sword.. im just going to go simple with it and grind it out of a piece of steel, i havent exactly decided on the alloy yet, leaning on 5160 or 9260 spring steels, id like to determine the blade design first and i will probably copy or inspire the shape of pre-existing blades in cross section and profile.. i do have some constraints, i want something single handed, max length of 40 inches, minimum of 34, max weight of 2.5lbs, i do not want a japanese or asian design blade, they seem to have been done to death

some of the styles of blades im considering are curved single edge blades like sabres, talwars, shamshirs.. but im also considering some straight double edges blades like a cut and thrust profile, or possibly dark age/viking, or maybe even a longer katzbalger or longer single-edge seax style blade

heres where the decision gets tough.. i want something i can go all-out on with the aesthetics.. taking japanese swords for example, the design of the guard, silk, ray skin, etc tend to make very, very beautiful swords, and im looking to bring that level of aesthetics to a more western style, with a more compact profile to it (so no large crossguards)

so if anyone has ideas or suggestion for the type of blade, or some some ideas of types of more westernized swords that can be anywhere near as gorgeous as some of the japanese styles you see out there, maybe some photos of some decorated or stylized hilts that could be incorporated into the overall design, or different types of wraps, coverings, or other thiings that can be done to the grip, let me know.. this will be one of my winter projects
 
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/733-Sword-Discussion
th-453713331751494.jpg
scots.jpg
 
Phew, that's a lot of grinding. I'm sure it's been done but I've never seen anyone that made blades that large with a stock removal method. Instead they forge them. I'm not an expert, but I've made at least one more knife than most people.

My other concern is heat treatment. You should make sure that whatever heat treat house you're planning on using can do the length blade you're making. I have my own heat treat oven but I'd have to send a sword out to someone with a really big setup.
 
i have a small kiln i can heat treat gun parts in.. but i may outsource to a local machine shop to heat treat the blade.. im actually leaning towards one of the longer, skinner falchion type blades, or something more like a sabre/talwar, but theres that whole straight vs single edges debate, if i go straight edge it would probably be more of a cut and thrust profile.. the primary usage im seeking is cutting, not so much interested in thrusting though id like some small amount of an ability to do this, so im leaning towards a curved edge for better cutting and easier draw cuts as well
 
General Knife Discussion is not a good place to discuss swords or sword making, moved to shoptalk.
 
Moved to the Sword Forum.


I would say to start simple and work up to fancy. A basic straight sword is a project in itself. If you want a fancier looking sword, consider the hilt and grip area as a place to do this. A katzbalger is a good start.

That said, there is a lot of difference between a sword and a knife. It is NOT a long knife.
 
anyone have any examples of some of the longer falchion blades?.. i think the katzbalger hilt has some potential unfortunately their blades were rather short with almost no point
 
It sounds like you're really not sure what your want to make. Most folks have a idea of what general style they are looking for.

Anyways if you want an idea take a look at this one. Full tang with 3/16" stock and tapering to under 1/8" a couple inches before the tip. Lots of contouring on both sides of the handle.

 
i seen a long falchion before that had what looked to be a 25+ inch blade.. narrower from the spine to the edge, looked closer to a kilij or a talwar.. i think i definitely prefer something with more cutting ability (more fun to practice with), and i also prefer something single handed so im going to focus on either a longer falchion, a sabre, or a shamshir/kilij/talwar.. possibly even a russian shasqua which would actually match my russian rifles very nicely (AKs, mosin nagant, soon to add an SVD, PK LMG, SVT-40, and others to that collection) so it may be more fitting for my collection of mechanical russian weaponry to follow more of a russian pattern with the shasqua, i can even engrave something in cryllic onto the blade as well

so shaqua, sabre, or shamshir/talwar are the three main types im considering, any input on any of these?
 
Stock removal for the styles you've mentioned will result in a lot of leftover steel depending on the curvature. If you're interested Tinker Pearce has posted his stock removal process on another forum--google should find it for you (not sure about the rules regarding linking to other forums here). I would gather as much info on the measurements (length, width, thickness, distal taper) on antiques of the sword type you decide on to help you create a blade with the proper handling characteristics. Also consider the fittings and how you'll manage those--saber fittings will be some work to make, especially dishing the guard.

It's shorter than what you're talking about but I've always loved this falchion

[
LondonandParis2011421.jpg
 
well, im not too worried about stock removal.. im putting together a machine shop and can find uses for most scrap.. itll cause a lot of scrap when it comes time to grind or machine down the taper of the blade from the spine to the edge but other than that im not too worried.. a lot cheaper than buying a furnace to do it that way
 
You don't say that your experience level is; it makes a big difference if you've made a few swords, or if this is your first one. But,you want to stock remove a 34" blade? How do you plan on doing this, on a grinder? That is going to be a nightmare. I hope you have a lot of grinding experience under your belt. You'll need to keep the grind nice and even all the way down, on both sides of the blade. Depending on whether you are right or left handed, unless you have the experience in grinding I mentioned, one of the sides is going to be much more difficult than the other. From my experience, finding someone qualified to heat treat such a long blade, and temper it, is very rare. None of the commercial heat treaters have the necessary equipment, so most sword makers end up making their own furnaces. Not to discourage you, you can do it, but it's a hugely challenging project. You may want to think about starting with a 14-16" blade, just for experience, and progress from there. I will tell you, the first time I made a full length sword (26") I forged it, imagine placing a red hot blade on the anvil and hammering it out; it turns into a snake and seems almost alive-it's clearly a highly specialized technical/art form, and that's why so few guys are doing swords. Good luck!
 
You should look up Moro/Philippines swords. There is a huge array of inspiring shapes and designs.
 
i can heat treat just fine, i have a small kiln i use for larger gun parts.. so long as its not a 6 foot great sword or something.. 40" or less should be fine, im still waffling on whether i want a straight or curved.. i think if i go curved ill go for the shamshir, if i go straight probably more of a cut and thrust profile.. something relatively narrow but straight, like a chinese jian
 
jason41987 said:
i can heat treat just fine, i have a small kiln i use for larger gun parts.. so long as its not a 6 foot great sword or something.. 40" or less should be fine, im still waffling on whether i want a straight or curved.. i think if i go curved ill go for the shamshir, if i go straight probably more of a cut and thrust profile.. something relatively narrow but straight, like a chinese jian
Click to expand...

I look forward to seeing your work.:thumbup:
 
Peters can heat treat it up to 42" long for air hardening steels. Tru Grit will do carbon steels. Just in case you are worried about the heat treat.
 
At least up to 36", as far as I know. I haven't done any longer than that, so I don't really know how much longer Jeff is capable of.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top