Detent ball placement (frame lock knives)

miso2

miso2

Joined
Nov 19, 2014
Messages
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I would like to discuss about the quality of factory frame lock knives here.

I am sure that the quality have really been improved lately, and that some factory knives are probably on per with custom/midtech knives.

I recently acquired my first custom frame lock and am pleased with the placement of the detent ball. It is just perfect and gives me a joy. According to “The Tactical Folding Knife” by Bob Terzuola, the ball should be half-dropped to the hole at the closed position, such that there would be no vertical blade play. My custom is impeccable at this. I cannot move the blade at all. CRK knives and Southard Tolk are also very very close.

However, factory frame locks I own, Spydiechef and Boker Exskelibur I, are not, while they are pretty good at blade centering and else. I can either push the blade further in or wiggle it vertically at the fully closed position.

Considering that Spydiechef is made in the praised Taichung factory, it was somewhat surprising that the fit and finish is not at the level of CRK (it may not for some). But, I only own these two factory frame lock knives so far and would like to know if there are factory frame lock knives, particularly ZT and the recent high end Chinese factories, which can compete with custom/midtech at this quality.

Thanks,
 
I have two spyderco knives doing that (blade wiggles slightly in fully closed position if I try to push or pull the blade), though it does not bother me much. None of the ZTs that I have has this issue.
 
sharp_edge said:
I have two spyderco knives doing that (blade wiggles slightly in fully closed position if I try to push or pull the blade), though it does not bother me much. None of the ZTs that I have has this issue.
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Which model of ZT do you have? Sounds like they are great knives.
Thanks!
 
I am super picku about such things. I wont keep a knife if it has play inmor out in the closed position. With that said some of these knives they can be adjusted to eliminate the issue but its not easy to describe how to do it.
 
PURPLEDC said:
I am super picku about such things. I wont keep a knife if it has play inmor out in the closed position. With that said some of these knives they can be adjusted to eliminate the issue but its not easy to describe how to do it.
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Could you tell me which factory frame locks you keep?
I was surprised to hear that the closed-position blade play can be adjusted at times. Does it involve peening the stop pin?
Thanks,
 
miso2 said:
Could you tell me which factory frame locks you keep?
I was surprised to hear that the closed-position blade play can be adjusted at times. Does it involve peening the stop pin?
Thanks,
Click to expand...

No. Some factories use a liberal slip fit construction. As in the parts are intentionally made in a way that you can tune the knife to make up for imperfect manufacture. For instance you often can get earlier lockup on a knife by loosening the handle screws and pushing the lockside of the frame towards the tip and the opposite scale to the butt of the knife and tighten the screws while doing so. This will make the lockup earlier and in some cases it will put the detent ball in a different orientation in the hole made for it which will isolate movement in the closed position.

Sometimes that wiggle in the closed position isnt even play in he detent but rather the detent ball is partially escaping the detent hole and popping back in. If a knife has a very small amount of lockbar or liner pressure it may seem like it has play but its really the lockbar moving in and out and the ball movin in and out. Thats why go test such a thing you need to have the knife closed with the blade facing the floor. If gravity alone isnt enough to feel the knocking when you push on he blade it likely isnt play but just overcoming the lockbar pressure but not enough to release the blade fully.

Either way the brands i have encountered with the least issues in this category for me have been reate and zt. We i have seen it on a knife and it couldnt be dialed out.
 
What exactly is the problem with a knife's blade doing this in the closed position?
 
Lapedog said:
What exactly is the problem with a knife's blade doing this in the closed position?
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I honestly dont think it will have a negative effect that anyone really needs to worry about. My only issue with it is that it shouldnt be that way if made properly. For me if i have an otherwise great folder and it has such an issue it bothers me because i know its not meant to be that way and to me it cheapens the experience. There are a lot of things knife nuts obsess over that really have no real effect on anything but our pride of ownership. But I will say that if a company doesnt consider such a thing a defect It makes me question what else they will allow in their knives. I am a bit of a perfectionist. But my standards are only set by the majority of the knives ive owned. And if a knife can be made solid with no play and feel like the quality it claims to be then that is the way I want it. Even if it really means nothing more than satisfying my picky sensibilities.
 
Honestly, there are far more things to nit pick at when it comes to frame lock knives than a tiny bit of play in the detent ball housing, which honestly will have zero impact on anything other than peoples OCD. To me, i got sick of hit and miss quality when it came to lockup. Lock stick, lock rock, being able to push the lock bar all the way to 100% when gripping hard (common on many of ZT's new man jewelry knives). It's just personal preference, but i don't bother with frame locks any more. I think us knife people will always find something to pick at, it's part of what we do.
 
I am not that much of a perfectionist, but when I see that the simple frame lock construction is executed perfectly and meticulously, I am awed and appreciate the craftsmanship of the maker(s).

I said above that it is not a functional issue, but it might be for cases that the blade can be pushed in. This may cause premature wear of the detent ball and the stop pin from potential frequent wiggling in the pocket.
 
miso2 said:
I am not that much of a perfectionist, but when I see that the simple frame lock construction is executed perfectly and meticulously, I am awed and appreciate the craftsmanship of the maker(s).

I said above that it is not a functional issue, but it might be for cases that the blade can be pushed in. This may cause premature wear of the detent ball and the stop pin from potential frequent wiggling in the pocket
Click to expand...

I have a Nymble that's doing this and I want to fix it. I am going to try what the other use said about adjusting the screws and pushing the scale around.

Did you figure out a good fix? There seems to be multiple reasons a knife can have detent lash.
 
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