Diamond or arkansas

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dalr753

Joined
Jan 5, 2012
Messages
77
okay i have several questions. first i was trying to decide between getting dmt diamond stones starting with a double sided 600/1200 mesh (fine 25 micron/extra fine 14 micron) and finish with a 8000 mesh 3 micron stone. or a soft/ hard arkansas (20micron/14micron) and finish on a black or translucent stone(9micron black unknown for translucent). which do you think is better why and what combo do you think would be best, what leaves the finest edge etc. lastly after im done with the last stone do you think it would be more beneficial to strop or use a 12,000 grit natural water stone?

ps. hows dans whetstones compared to say norton.
 
Arkansas stones can be a PITA to get an edge on if you dont know what your doing- they are definitely harder to obtain an edge on than diamond. Diamond removes material faster, doesnt need flattening and when broken in, those stones will leave a much finer edge ;) for finishing the edge, I recommend some plain denim on a block to straighten the micro serration and form the apex , and some 0.5 micron diamond paste on a leather strop
 
Both Dan's and NOrton Arkansas stones are of good quality. The Black is finer than Translucent. Yet, these are naturals of 15-1800 grit. I've been to Sand Point, ID., its very pretty there. DM
 
For an answer, i say get both. Start on the dmt and finish with the arkansas. Now for some food for though... From what i understand, norton uses reconstituted arkansas stones, at least with their translucent ones, but you'll get great performance either way. I highly suggest going to dan's website. There is a lot of info on arkansas stones there, including grading. If you're finishing off on the arkansas stones, i would play around with them before deciding to use a compound or film. These stones are very responsive to pressure, and a light touch can do impressive things. Lastly, leather is king.
 
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What do you mean by 'reconstituted arkansas stones'? I've never heard of this?? Norton procured a contract for quarried Arkansas stones well before any of us were born. Still, they are a natural stone and thus work different. Leather?-- It depends on what your after. Stropping on leather will remove the burr, refine the edge and convex it. The same can be done by other means. DM
 
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From what I understand, norton translucent stones are crushed stone bonded back together for consistancy. I could be wrong though. But a simple way to check for the translucent one is to look at a light through it. A normal stone will usually have fault lines in the stone. The nortons will be more consistant.
The leather remark is a personal opinion. I haven't found anything I like more than leather for that final toush. Although I will admit that I use newspaper when not home.
 
I'm a bit skeptical of the 'reconstituted' description, at least in Norton's case. Other, cheaper brands might do such a thing, but if the below description is accurate, I don't see Norton doing it. I don't see how a stone classified as 'Arkansas' or 'natural' could be ground into powder, and then 'reconstituted' (presumably with binders that aren't 'natural'), and still be marketed as a 'natural' or 'Arkansas' stone. Doesn't seem ethical to me, which is why I can't see Norton doing such a thing.

This is a description quoted from Norton's own site, of the origin of Arkansas stones (including translucent). Note the comment in the quoted text about the 'brittle nature' of the stone, and the precaution to use light charges for quarrying it. If they're concerned about cracking it, I'd presume that means they're using it in it's natural state.

( from site: http://www.nortonstones.com/ArkansasSharpeningStones.aspx )

"The Arkansas Stone is famous the world over for its unique capacity to impart an extremely fine finish to a cutting edge. No other oilstone can approach the sharpening characteristics of this beautiful creation of nature. Arkansas Stone is geologically classified as a Novaculite. Novaculites are very hard, fine-grained siliceous rock, probably of sedimentary origin. They are nearly pure Silica and can be many times harder than marble.

The harder formations of Arkansas stone range from black to pure white through whites containing various shades of yellow, red and gray. True Hard Arkansas is glass like and translucent in appearance. This stone will produce a mirror finish on cutting edges. Soft Arkansas stone is opaque and milky white in color and can contain shades of yellow, red and gray. Its structure is more open and will develop a honed cutting edge. Still softer, Washita Arkansas stone is a good deal coarser than Soft Arkansas. Also opaque, it has an attractive grainy mixture or white, red and gray colors. It produces a good sharp edge rather than a fine finish. Arkansas Sharpening Stones will not cut as rapidly or aggressively as man-made stones or diamond sharpening devices. For well maintained cutlery and knives this is an advantage. You get a superior cutting edge with minimum wear on your cutlery.

The only known Novaculite deposits suitable for sharpening stones are in the Ouachita Mountains, not far from Hot Springs, Arkansas. Novaculite deposits are located by prospectors who search for leads in outcroppings on the side walls of cliffs and mountains. A lead may run in any direction: horizontally, obliquely or vertically. In following it, there is no way to foretell what quantity or quality of rock will be encountered. When a vein is struck, which is apparently suitable, it is generally a solid mass of extremely hard and brittle rock with no natural lines of cleavage. Quarrying involves blasting with black powder. Because of its brittle nature, light charges must be used. Quarried stone is cut with diamond saws and shaped into many forms using hand and mechanical production procedures."
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At times I'm amazed at the misinformation posted here. Norton would never do that and I've never read anything that substantiates them using reconstituted Arkansas stones.?? DM
 
Hey guys,

I have diamond stones and arkansas stones. I also use a beltgrinder and sandpaper and strops by hand.

I love my DMT's for what they are, but when you have a steel that responds well to a good translucent the experience and results are different.

Arkansas you get MUCH BETTER feedback when the apex is being honed.

As for what is going on now, there is a WEALTH of information in this thread http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...Translucent-Arkansas-Question-I-Have-Both-Now

David Martin was one of the gentleman to share a lot of info and there is a lot to be learned from these guys.

I also spent numerous hours on the phone with people from the Dans. Great people to learn about these stones from. They don't hide anything and tell it like it is.

Maybe if there is a real concern the person concerned could contact Norton directly?
 
Rich, Good to see you. Thanks, thats a good idea. I have several Norton Arkansas stones and their Translucent is of very good quality with only one line. A beauty to look at. DM
 
David Martin said:
Rich, Good to see you. Thanks, thats a good idea. I have several Norton Arkansas stones and their Translucent is of very good quality with only one line. A beauty to look at. DM
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David, the advice was not towards you. I know you know what you have :)
 
No worries mate, I took it like that. I as well have called the good folks at Dan's and chatted with them and found the same thing you state. They know Arkansas stones. I even purchased one from them and it is of good quality. DM
 
I did say i could be wrong. I wasn't trying to start an argument or anything. That's just what I've heard talking to my machining teachers. And thanks rich, i did send norton and dan's an email asking about it. I'll wait and see what they say about it.
 
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