Diamond plate vs Arkansas stones

L

Littlebabycarrot

Joined
Jan 1, 2018
Messages
56
I dont like ordering gear online BC I can't see who I'm giving my CC# to so my sharpening gear right now is limited to what I can find in Fresno, California. That limits it to the DMT plate(Coarse & fine) & Arkansas stones(The ubiquitous soft white & the only hard black Ive come accross) along with some (generic i think)aluminum oxide stones & carbide stones that are coarse/medium and coarse/fine.
I cant seem to 'ride the bevel' cleanly enough with the diamond plates, i guess bc of the holes for collecting swarf dont let me do that smoothly enough. I ride the bevel with my strokes when the angle is satisfactory to me. But since i cannot make that work, instead i lock my wrist like when i start a new bevel and use more speed and that seems to give me regular results.
When i am using the stones I have the reverse trouble. With the stones I have an easier time riding the bevel but a more difficult time starting a new bevel of a different angle. This is probably related to my technique: i usually hold the stone on my hand.
With most knives i can make one or the other work given enough time but the most consistent results i have gotten come when i start the bevel on the coarse/fine diamond(sometimes just the fine) plate and then the arkansas stones. Sometimes in between i use the fine aluminum oxide stone with water but bc i cannot keep that stone reliably flat ill skip that step alot bc it can destroy the tactile feedback i rely on to ride the bevel with my black arkansas.
A quick observation- if cost is not really an issue for you but uniform results are it is definitely worth it to invest in a second set of diamond plates to flatten/lap the other stones. I didnt do that and my coarse diamond plate is wearing unevenly from lapping my stones
 
Water stones have good feedback while sharpening. I know my local bed bath and beyond has carried dual grit water stones. I don't remember what brand it was that they had or if it was any good. So, maybe check some of those home stores. I personally like the dmt stones. They take a little while to break in though. I sharpen small blades on my dmt and i haven't had trouble "riding the bevel". In fact, i find the dmt a little easier to keep a straight bevel because the stone is so flat.
 
It is not your stones. You have more than good enough equipment to get a hair shaving edge. It's your technique. Put the stone down on a bench out of the house in a quiet area and focus on your mechanics while holding the knife with both hands. Mark the edge bevel and check
your work. Watch what your doing and go slow. DM
 
Littlebabycarrot said:
I dont like ordering gear online BC I can't see who I'm giving my CC# to so my sharpening gear right now is limited to what I can find in Fresno, California. That limits it to the DMT plate(Coarse & fine) & Arkansas stones(The ubiquitous soft white & the only hard black Ive come accross) along with some (generic i think)aluminum oxide stones & carbide stones that are coarse/medium and coarse/fine.
I cant seem to 'ride the bevel' cleanly enough with the diamond plates, i guess bc of the holes for collecting swarf dont let me do that smoothly enough. I ride the bevel with my strokes when the angle is satisfactory to me. But since i cannot make that work, instead i lock my wrist like when i start a new bevel and use more speed and that seems to give me regular results.
When i am using the stones I have the reverse trouble. With the stones I have an easier time riding the bevel but a more difficult time starting a new bevel of a different angle. This is probably related to my technique: i usually hold the stone on my hand.
With most knives i can make one or the other work given enough time but the most consistent results i have gotten come when i start the bevel on the coarse/fine diamond(sometimes just the fine) plate and then the arkansas stones. Sometimes in between i use the fine aluminum oxide stone with water but bc i cannot keep that stone reliably flat ill skip that step alot bc it can destroy the tactile feedback i rely on to ride the bevel with my black arkansas.
A quick observation- if cost is not really an issue for you but uniform results are it is definitely worth it to invest in a second set of diamond plates to flatten/lap the other stones. I didnt do that and my coarse diamond plate is wearing unevenly from lapping my stones
Click to expand...

I'd take a deep breath . . . relax . . . forget all about this bevel riding business . . . it will only end in tears . . . write a check and send it to someone selling Edge Pro Apexes.

After all when a machinist wants to machine a precise bevel on a plate of steel he / she will set up a machine to that angle and just make passes and cut the steel. They won't be using a file and feeling for a bevel and puckering their puckerer. Sharpening is just a metal machining operation and since we want to take it to fractions of a degree and to microns of accuracy doesn't it make sense to do it with a device designed to give you a hope in hell of actually hitting those tolerances ?

. . . that's just me.
 
It makes a lot of sense, but I burned out the motor on my machine( whoops) and the honing i do is more for the sake of learning to do it as best I can so i can be useful if all the lights ever go out all over civilization :)
 
Mo2 said:
What steel are you sharpening
Click to expand...
I was sharpening a d2 ontario rat1 a week ago, which may explain things: i was using a deathgrip on all my knives BC of how tough it was to hone the Rat, I guess my other muscle memory temporarily ditched me and I had to re-remember
 
David Martin said:
It is not your stones. You have more than good enough equipment to get a hair shaving edge. It's your technique. Put the stone down on a bench out of the house in a quiet area and focus on your mechanics while holding the knife with both hands. Mark the edge bevel and check
your work. Watch what your doing and go slow. DM
Click to expand...
Good advice and thank you. There was a reason I did it all by hand besides the low clearance for knuckles but I just cannot remember why i started doing it that way.
David Martin said:
It is not your stones. You have more than good enough equipment to get a hair shaving edge. It's your technique. Put the stone down on a bench out of the house in a quiet area and focus on your mechanics while holding the knife with both hands. Mark the edge bevel and check
your work. Watch what your doing and go slow. DM
Click to expand...
Thank you, that is good advice. I cannot remember the specific reason I never used a table top, and i really dont think knuckle-clearance was my primary concern at the time I learned to do it this way but I have been trying to get used to a table setup: it feels clumsy but i do seem to get more consistent results. I just wish my experience using a table top equaled my experience at not using a tabletop
 
May I suggest that you ask your bank for a second credit card... one that has, say, a $200 limit on it that you can use for your on-line purchases? That way, should you run into any sort of scam, they can't clear out your entire bank account. I have two such credit cards that I use, although to date, I've never had a problem.


Stitchawl
 
You have to use light pressure and let the diamonds do the cutting, otherwise you will be ripping the diamonds from the plate. A DMT Diasharp in coarse will handle most any steel with ease. A coarse diamond plate along with diamond paste on basswood as a stop will work wonders on most any steel.

Or if you prefer a conventional stone, a Norton Crystalon in 220 grit works well for D2.
 
stitchawl said:
May I suggest that you ask your bank for a second credit card... one that has, say, a $200 limit on it that you can use for your on-line purchases? That way, should you run into any sort of scam, they can't clear out your entire bank account. I have two such credit cards that I use, although to date, I've never had a problem.


Stitchawl
Click to expand...
That, my friend, is a clever idea. But I broke down and ordered a 4ķ/8k off of Amazon. I was lying about the reason for not using online shopping: i suspect i really was adverse bc I knew I wld get a heck of a thrill from getting something I wanted so badly so easily. And I paid the 9 bucks for next day shipping like a sap, too :)
 
JB in SC said:
You have to use light pressure and let the diamonds do the cutting, otherwise you will be ripping the diamonds from the plate. A DMT Diasharp in coarse will handle most any steel with ease. A coarse diamond plate along with diamond paste on basswood as a stop will work wonders on most any steel.

Or if you prefer a conventional stone, a Norton Crystalon in 220 grit works well for D2.
Click to expand...
Yes my coarse DMT plate has a smooth spot worn away near the center where i did some side-honing, which is unfortunate( it would still work at the top and bottom thirds for setting a bevel) because now I was mainly using it to keep my stones flat. Except for the Ontario Rat1, where I wanted a shallower bevel, I havent used the coarse side much. I have to think my next diamond plate will be an 8ķ or a 12ķ- How big are the carbides in d2 steel anyway? I read 420HC has 1micron carbides but d2 has some big ones right?
 
Littlebabycarrot said:
Yes my coarse DMT plate has a smooth spot worn away near the center where i did some side-honing, which is unfortunate( it would still work at the top and bottom thirds for setting a bevel) because now I was mainly using it to keep my stones flat. Except for the Ontario Rat1, where I wanted a shallower bevel, I havent used the coarse side much. I have to think my next diamond plate will be an 8ķ or a 12ķ- How big are the carbides in d2 steel anyway? I read 420HC has 1micron carbides but d2 has some big ones right?
Click to expand...

The ingot variety of D2 can have chromium carbides that're pretty big (or HUGE), like 50-100 microns at times. That's where most of it's difficulty lies, in sharpening it. They're sometimes big enough to be seen by naked eye, when the steel is etched/treated in such a way to reveal them.

CPM-D2, made from the powder metal process, will have carbides much, much smaller; likely < 5 microns, at least.
 
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Thank you for the info. Thats why i want a diamond plate at 8k or 12k. At that size i can cut the carbides & keep em in their matrices right?
 
Now that the 4ķ/8k waterstone arrived I guess i can put my 'own' edge on my razor rather than just touching it up on my black arkansas stone.... speaking of which i have no idea how long i honed it on that arkansas this am but i ended up picking up a solid inch-long burr off the stone before i finished. How common is that? Ive had that happen a few times and far as i can tell it has never caused harm.
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
The ingot variety of D2 can have chromium carbides that're pretty big (or HUGE), like 50-100 microns at times. That's where most of it's difficulty lies, in sharpening it. They're sometimes big enough to be seen by naked eye, when the steel is etched/treated in such a way to reveal them.

CPM-D2, made from the powder metal process, will have carbides much, much smaller; likely < 5 microns, at least.
Click to expand...
I assume this is why when i get to a fine enough grit it starts looking pitted, where the carbides have come out?
 
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