Diamond stone preferences

[JJ_Colt45]

I imagine this has been discussed before but I didn't find much in searching so I will ask and see what those of you that know more and have more experience with diamond stones as I only recently added diamond stones into my mix ...

What I'm wondering is the difference between the uninterupted DMT 8" Diasharp Bench Stones I bought vs the polka dot or interupted stones ...

The stones I bought work well but I don't like the feel and feedback using them ... so I am wondering if the interupted or polka dot diamond stones have a better feel?

I am considering trying the DMT Diafolds or more likely the DMT polka dot bench stones ...

so what are your thoughts comparing the two or other brands possibly but do the polka dot stones have a better feedback or feel? ... do my uniterupted stones just need more break in time to feel better ? ... especially the coarser stones?

So I'd like to hear what you think or prefer and why ... I have all my other stones Shapton Glass and Chosera and some Norton Combo stones ... but for the few harder blades I added diamonds but I'm not liking the feel yet ...

my other question is ... would SiC stones be a better option over the diamond stones? And how do the SiC stones wear compared to diamonds?

I know nothing about the SiC stones or what brand is good if you think they are a better option.

Thanks for any thoughts or suggestions ... JJ

 

[aleforme]

Personally, I think the interrupted DMT stones provide better feedback. I have both the DuoSharp and DiaSharp 8 inch stones and I definitely prefer the feel on the DuoSharps. I can feel the edge of the knife "bite" a bit into the interrupted stones better. I think maybe having the blade continuously coming off and then hitting the edges of the small circles (even if it ever so very slight) really gives you a better feel.

I also have a couple Double Sided DiaFolds. I love them. So easy to take out and get a screaming sharp edge. I probably use these more than any other sharpening devise. I keep them handy in the kitchen and use them to touch up my kitchen knives and various folders. I've got the Coarse/Fine and the Extra Fine/Extra Extra Fine combos. I bought these out of curiosity and can't believe how well I ended up likely them.

 

[jc57]

I have some of the DMT 6" polka-dot hones. I don't care for them compared to continuous surfaces, or plates that have patterns of diamonds on a flat plate but don't have indentations like the DMTs.

When getting to the tips of some knives, I find they can catch in the holes if using edge leading strokes.

The real reason for the polka-dots is to have less surface area covered in diamonds, which reduces the cost of the hone. You'll notice the continuous ones are more expensive.

Regarding quality SiC - for oil stones, Norton Crystolon is the standard. I am not personally familiar with SiC-based water stones, though they exist.

 

[JJ_Colt45]

I haven't ever used the polka dot DMTs ... the Diasharp uniterupted work but I'm used to a different feel ...

I do have a Norton combo Crystolon and India Oil stone but I haven't had it long or used it but once yet ...

maybe I should try the Diafolds and see how they feel as a less expensive route than the polka dot bench stones ..

Thanks for the input I'm interested to see what others think ...

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

There was a time when I couldn't get comfortable with the feel of any diamond hone, interrupted surface or not. It took me a long time to figure out the right touch for them, as they all felt radically different to me, as compared to other conventional stones.

I became more comfortable with diamond hones after first trying DMT, in particular. In Fine grit and finer, they really felt smoother to me, even while cutting the steel like a beast (proven by all the swarf collected on the hone). I finally started to get a feel for diamond with the Fine (600) DMT, so I used that one for a long while before trying anything coarser. At Coarse/XC levels, I was intimidated by the incredibly rough feel under a blade's edge, and I tended to go too easy (light) on them, to the point I felt like my use of pressure was so light that I couldn't exert enough control over the process to keep the angle steady. I had to work past that tendency and allow myself to exert enough pressure to maintain firm control. Once I did that, I started to notice how much more consistently they worked and how easily they cut the steel.

There are ways to coax a better 'feel' out of them. In particular, I find using a little bit of mineral oil on the hones helps to (literally) smooth out the feedback, while at the same time still working aggressively. I notice the benefit of this more with the Coarse/XC hones. Used with a little bit of mineral oil, the 'feel' begins to approach what I'm used to in using other stones, like oil stones (SiC, India, Arkansas, etc).

As it is now for me, I don't see much difference in using either of the continuous or interrupted-surface hones from DMT. To me, most of the differences come down to working the tips of blades, and making sure to keep the tip in a trailing (following) orientation on the interrupted-surface hones, so it won't 'dig in' on the 'dots' of those hones. To me, learning to do that consistently was relatively simple anyway, so even that hasn't been much of a worry. I use the same technique on either type, and it seems to work equally well, either way. I use either type pretty much interchangably, with essentially identical results.

 

[JJ_Colt45]

Obsessed with Edges ... That's about exactly how I would describe what I'm feeling with the DMT coarse stone ... maybe I just need to move up to a finer grit to start with? ... to get the feel of diamonds ...

do the coarser diamond stones break in and get a better feel ? or is it just a matter of the user becoming more comfortable with them?

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Obsessed with Edges ... That's about exactly how I would describe what I'm feeling with the DMT coarse stone ... maybe I just need to move up to a finer grit to start with? ... to get the feel of diamonds ...

do the coarser diamond stones break in and get a better feel ? or is it just a matter of the user becoming more comfortable with them?

I was going to suggest that directly, actually, but forgot to include that in my post. I think that's what got me past the initial fear of using diamond in the first place, in starting out with something finer and just working with that for a while.

As for the break-in of the coarser hones, they'll improve a bit. But there'll still be some of that learning curve of getting used to the feel of them, especially at XC or beyond. I'd suggest finding an inexpensive practice blade that you're not worried about (cosmetically) and just grind away, maybe with some oil on the hone, so you can see how it's working versus how it feels via feedback. You'll get a better sense of them then.

 

[samuraistuart]

My thoughts: The coarse plates (220 mesh, 325 mesh, 600 mesh) will indeed break in and get a better feel. (I much prefer the DiaSharp continuous surface stones so my comments are based upon them, haven't used the DuoSharp plates in a number of years). The 1200 mesh (extra fine) continuous surface stone is a weird one. It feels HORRIBLE when new, and even when "broken in". I don't care for it at all. It feels like there are larger diamond particles scattered in that stone than there should be. I even sent a relatively new EF stone back to DMT and complained about that odd feel, they gave me a brand new one, and it has the same issue. To me, the edge off of the Fine 600 mesh feels much sharper/better than the edge off the EF 1200. I MUCH prefer the feel of the 1200 mesh (EF) Atoma over the DiaSharps, and indeed prefer the feel of all Atoma stones over DMT/EZ Lap. The XXC DiaSharp plate (120 mesh I think it is) feels like it never wears out, but I don't use it for sharpening much at all, rather for water stone flattening. The EEF (3 micron) DiaSharp is a weird one, IMHO. You can't tell which side the abrasive diamond is on! There is even a direction arrow etched on the side of the plate saying "^ this side"! It has a very odd feel to me. But, it serves a purpose, especially on the higher alloy steels. I don't use it much, as I don't often sharpen higher alloy steels besides occasionally ZDP189 and CPM M4.

 

[JJ_Colt45]

I only have the Atoma 140 for lapping purposes ... I haven't tried any finer Atoma stones ...

I may look into them and find out more ... but I do have finer DMT Diasharps I can try for awhile and see if they get me more comfortable with diamonds ...

I may get the less expensive Diafold to try the interupted surface before spending more on bigger bench stones.

I'm still curious if anyone prefers options other than diamond stones for harder metals ... In my mind I assume they may have a better feel but I don't know that or how they wear.

I appreciate everyones replies ... gives me ideas to consider.

 

[Mo2]

I would recommend bonded diamond stones. There are many brands of these. Looks like edge pro is even beta testing done right now. Basically a layer of diamonds in an organic epoxy or soft metallic layer. They should last a lifetime of use and the diamonds won't break off if you use too much pressure. You can just refresh them if they start to cut slower.
I have a few smaller bonded stones from venev and I like them alot. They have had a few issues as recently that are said to be being sorted with a new epoxy. Also the 2000 grit is not really idea.
Here's the thread on the edge pro ones...
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/edge-pro-matrix-resin-bond-diamond-stones.1590536/
@DeadboxHero has some Japanese bonded diamond water stones that are also excellent.
And then there is Poltava cbn and or diamond metallic bonded stones that are also well received.

With all that said... It's not like these are going to make your edges way better than dmt, atoma etc. Just different, and imho I prefer them better. But like anything, it's all subjective.

SiC stones are also great but not preferred for steel high in Vanadium in higher grits. Reason being sic isn't as hard as Vanadium. SiC cut fast and gives a great working edge. Though it wears out fast and you will have to flatten the stones when they dish. Will work perfectly fine for working edges on majority of steels.

I would say if you got cpm or other powdered steel use cbn or diamonds for stones (not all these steel types but I've had best results with diamonds on most of these types), and strops and use sic or ceramic for everything else. Or.. Use sic for working edges or removing material fast and use diamonds for refining for that mirror edge on high Vanadium steel.