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did buck downgrade steel?

Dijos

Dijos

Joined
Nov 20, 2001
Messages
2,600
When I first looked at the Hilo/cutback, I was very impressed that they had 440c steel. When I just checked back, now the Buck website says 420 hc. When did this change? That's a kind of big change..
 
Buck's 420HC is not a bad steel at all. Of course 440C is better, but the Hilo is still the only fullsize steel framelock under $30 I'm aware of. I'm considering buying one myself.
 
Dang...you're right, they DID down-grade the steel. I am glad I snagged one while they were still 440C.

*EDIT*

I see they have also down-graded the Whittaker Metro Keychain/cap liffter/knife from 420HC to 420J2.
 
420HC is significantly better than 420J2. However, there are in fact several quality framelocks in the ~$30 price range.
The Benchmade Monochrome locks up like a bankvault and its opening smoothness is unparalleled in in the sub-$50 range, hands down. It also sports a great blade steel (N690).
Then there's the Camillus EDC (AUS-8) and the Kershaw Vapor (AUS-6), the latter can be had for around $25.
So the Buck Hilo does have a few excellent competitors in its niche.

I have to say that the Hilo looks very cool though.
 
Yes, apparently starting this year, there has been a change from 440C to 420HC on some models.

Also, some new knives are 440A.
 
420 series and aus4/6 are my favorites.. :jerkit: :barf:

i really want a fixed crkt crawford kasper but since its aus6 i will probably never buy it.
 
Buck is really starting to dissapoint me, with their cost saving changes. :thumbdn: :grumpy:
 
I have a Buck 119 special in 420HC. Sucks donkey balls, I cut paper like two times and it goes dull. :jerkit:
 
Quiet Storm said:
420HC is significantly better than 420J2. However, there are in fact several quality framelocks in the ~$30 price range.
The Benchmade Monochrome locks up like a bankvault and its opening smoothness is unparalleled in in the sub-$50 range, hands down. It also sports a great blade steel (N690).
Then there's the Camillus EDC (AUS-8) and the Kershaw Vapor (AUS-6), the latter can be had for around $25.
So the Buck Hilo does have a few excellent competitors in its niche.

I have to say that the Hilo looks very cool though.
Click to expand...

Thanks Quiet Storm, but you forgot the "fullsize" part. The EDC, the Buck Pilot/Mantis and especially the Monocrome are fantastic knives, especially for their price, but their handles are short and/or narrow for me, although I don't really have enormous hands. A ladyfriend of mine owns a Monocrome, and the size of the handle is just right - for her. (She is a not fat or extremely tall.) According to the pictures, the Hilo/Cutback have fatter, more comfortable handles. I've never seen the knives in person, so if I'm wrong, I would be real thankfull is someone would correct me. I woldn't ever buy a knife made from 420HC for more than 30-40 Euros, but with Buck's heat treat, this steel is adequate. N690 is much better though in every possible way.
 
Heat treat, schmeet treat. Benchmade's cheapest steal is better than Buck's best. What does that tell you?
 
Django606 said:
Heat treat, schmeet treat. Benchmade's cheapest steal is better than Buck's best. What does that tell you?
Click to expand...
That, on average, Benchmades cost a lot more than Bucks. :D
 
Redguy said:
Thanks Quiet Storm, but you forgot the "fullsize" part. The EDC, the Buck Pilot/Mantis and especially the Monocrome are fantastic knives, especially for their price, but their handles are short and/or narrow for me, although I don't really have enormous hands.
Click to expand...

I'm 6'2" and my hands are as large as you'd expect from someone my size. The Monochrome's handle is well over 4 inches long and I find it very comfortable.
It isn't very beefy, but that is the case with most framelocks.

So maybe you do have enormous hands. ;)
 
I've had a bunch of Bucks over the years, including a stockman and a couple of 'Lites' in what was probably 440C. Trouble with them was that while they held a great edge they were extremely difficult to sharpen -- of course, I didn't have any diamond hones back then. I also had a couple of 119s, one with the kraton handle and another with the tradiional black phenolic; I suspect both of those were 420HC. I used each of the 119s for field dressing moose on separate occasions, and they met my criteria of not having to touch up the edge during the entire job. Currently, I have a good old 110 in 420HC, and while it doesn't hold an edge as long as, say, ATS-34, it's easy to resharpen and it takes a scary sharp edge (Buck's new edge geometry, I forget what they call it, probably has something to do with that). AUS8 probably holds an edge a bit better, but 420HC as Buck heat treats it is an excellent cutlery steel IMHO.
 
They may have downgraded the steel on foriegn made knives due to competition with their own US line. For example, last year you could get a chinese made Buck slipjoint in 440C for less than the US Buck slipjoint in 420HC.
 
M Wadel said:
420 series and aus4/6 are my favorites.. :jerkit: :barf:

i really want a fixed crkt crawford kasper but since its aus6 i will probably never buy it.
Click to expand...

Do you post anything without smileys? Get real. i understand AUS4, but I doubt that you use your knives enough to need anything higher than AUS6. Cutting up an ocasional cardboard box, opening the mail, cutting a few zip-ties, and skinning an apple usualy don't warrent it; you could do all those things with 420HC or AUS4 and still have a useable edge.
 
I understand that companies have to save money and use cheaper materials. But aren't most of you willing to pay a little more to get a knife the better quality materials then save a little and get a mediocre knife.
 
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