Did I screw up my Case Barlow?

R

racuda

Joined
Apr 28, 2013
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5
Since I took early retirement I decided to go from my keychain SAK to something more substantial. I live on 40 acres with goats and chickens and I'm outside piddling around all day. Something always needs to be done and a knife comes in handy.

I have a modest knife collection and picked out one that I bought in the '70s but never used, a Case Barlow 62009½. I never carried it because it was so hard to open and close. The reason I wanted to use it now is that it is sturdy and, although extremely stiff, it opened and closed with authority. Another thing I like is the half stops.

Lubrication made no difference in the ease of opening, so I decided to wash it out with soap and water to de-grease it so the surfaces could wear in. After doing this it was REALLY hard to open. I stuck the point in a piece of wood and opened and closed it about 15 times.

I added a drop of oil and was dismayed that it felt rough and gritty. I figured that the joint was now full of metal particles so I washed it out thoroughly with Dawn and hot water, then flushed it with WD-40. I added a drop of oil, and worked it in. It still felt rough and gritty and the large blade won't snap shut. It needs a nudge to close all the way.

Is there anything that can be done, or am I stuck with a knife that has permanently lost it's good smooth "walk and talk"?
 
I would try a can of compressed air. The type that is used for computers. If anything, it will blow out any oil and dirt that shouldn't be there. Then re-oil, work the knife and blow it out again. Keep doing this until you're happy with it.
 
I'd say if it still feels gritty, it likely is. My usual approach is to just keep flushing with WD-40 and working the pivot while doing so. Sometimes it takes a while and a lot of opening/closing cycles to work the troublesome grit out of it. Grit particles are likely wedged in between the tang and spring, or between the pivot pin and the tang (very tough to get out), or between between tang and liners. Only way to get the particles to move is to keep working the joint while flushing it out.

Might also be worth soaking for an extended time in WD-40. I've done this with heavily rusted folders, by first flushing it with WD-40, then wrapping the whole knife in paper towels also soaked in it, and sealing the whole bundle in an airtight container for a couple or three days. Whatever grit is in there should further soften up (hopefully), and then flush it again (working the pivot) and give the whole thing a bath in hot water & liquid dish detergent (Dawn/Ivory/etc).


David
 
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if your not afraid of you knife becoming an alcoholic you can let it soak in some isopropal alcohol or some ethanol with the knife partially open & is should loosen up particles in the knife & clean it at the same time
 
You must be careful with wd40 and carbon steel. wd40 uses a water based propellant and must be cleaned off of carbon steel immediatley after use.
 
rma100 said:
You must be careful with wd40 and carbon steel. wd40 uses a water based propellant and must be cleaned off of carbon steel immediatley after use.
Click to expand...

I've never heard of this, so call me skeptical. It would completely contradict the basis for the product's name and invention, which is to displace water (remove it). Hence the 'WD' in the name (Water Displacement). If taken literally, I suppose one might assume it uses water to do this, but it means the product is used to remove water from nooks/crannies in whatever it's used on. I use it expressly for that purpose, after washing knives in soap/water.

WD-40 is all I've ever used to lube my carbon folders' pivots, with no issues (none) in 20+ years. The mix is a light solvent and light mineral oil. Some of the oil gets left behind, but that's all.

This is from WD-40's own FAQ page ( http://wd40.com/faqs/#a91 )
"What does WD-40 stand for?
WD-40 literally stands for Water Displacement, 40th formula. That's the name straight out of the lab book used by the chemist who developed the product back in 1953. The chemist, Norm Larsen, was attempting to concoct a formula to prevent corrosion—a task which is done by displacing water. Norm's persistence paid off when he perfected the formula on his 40th try."

(...)

"What does WD-40 Multi-Use Product contain?
While the ingredients in WD-40 Multi-Use Product are secret, we can tell you what it does NOT contain. WD-40 Multi-Use Product does not contain silicone, kerosene, water, graphite, or chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs)."
Click to expand...


David
 
I have to agree with David---I've used it on tools, carbon bladed knives and the likes for years and never had any ill effects what so ever. The main reason was to ward off the ill effects of waters damaging tools/knives.

Again---WD = Water Displacement.

Paul
 
On a warm, humid day, WD-40, as many other aerosols containing solvent , will cool the blade by quick evaporation of the solvent, enough to condense droplets of water out of the atmosphere. 'Especially noticable with the more volatile aerosols, such as brake cleaner. 'does a great job degreasing, but you have to follow up and wipe dry sometimes with a new kleenex, etc.
 
I have had very good success with WD40. I got a knife not long ago at a flea market that had a fairly similar set of symptoms but it did take a lot of opening and closing with a liberal amount of WD40. Finally worked, but I did leave it overnight with "Blue lube" (Benchmade makes this lube, but I think other things would work well too). Let us know how this worked ok?
 
Fox Creek said:
On a warm, humid day, WD-40, as many other aerosols containing solvent , will cool the blade by quick evaporation of the solvent, enough to condense droplets of water out of the atmosphere. 'Especially noticable with the more volatile aerosols, such as brake cleaner. 'does a great job degreasing, but you have to follow up and wipe dry sometimes with a new kleenex, etc.
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WD-40 dispenses sort of lukewarm or warmer, especially if it's stored in the garage. I've never seen it come out cold, like brake cleaner would (much more volatile solvent, and no oil at all). Part of the 'water displacement' characteristic of WD-40 is due to the oil left behind, which fills nooks/pores/gaps after the solvent has flushed moisture out (then evaporating), and prevents moisture from clinging. I could see brake cleaner chilling the surface and causing condensation (and there's no oil in it to fill the pores after), but the two products are nowhere near similar, either in composition or intended use.

Again, I just don't believe this applies to this product. Been using it way too long; it's about as mild as any solvent-based lubricant can be.


David
 
rma100 said:
You must be careful with wd40 and carbon steel. wd40 uses a water based propellant and must be cleaned off of carbon steel immediatley after use.
Click to expand...

does anyone want to know the exact formula for WD-40????
All you need to do is put it into and NMR and read the Spikes..... for all the Lab and chem buffs, one on ya if you know what im talking about
 
Jack your air compressor up to 160 or higher psi, put on a set of glasses and blow it out in all directions.

I am not in line with washing knives in the sink unless they are fixed blades.

All you need is a good cleaner (clp works) and a little time then blow it out.

If something is in there that high pressure air can not get out try putting just a little bit of polish in on the sides of the tang (not the backspring or halfstops) and I mean a little... Like a thin layer you can barely see. Work this in and you should see black crud work out immediadtly. Only do it so long as it can cause blade play with too long, too much, or too abrasive of a polish. I use old compounds I'm not sure which but a friend tried this with flitz and reported back glass like action after. That is also my results on about 5-6 knives.

Hope something works.

Kevin

Eta this will not make your action feel smooth until you clean out the polish and re oil the pivot. Acetone works well for removing polish.
 
Thanks for the great suggestions. I'm going to soak it overnight in CLP, then work on it some more tomorrow. I'll report my progress.
 
http://www.wd40company.com/files/pdf/WD-40Aerosol-MSDS-Canada7-21-12-2.pdf

The MSDS for WD40 aerosol shows nothing in the ingredients that a chemist (me) would consider "water soluble".

The original usage for WD-40 was to be sprayed on bare aluminum Atlas rocket parts stored in non-humidity controlled storage by the ocean (Convair, the builder, was located on San Diego bay.) The WD-40 was to be left on the aluminum to form a barrier against water. It worked better than other things they tried. .

The WD-40 company swears they have not changed the formula. I would be shocked if there really were anything in WD-40 which would cause corrosion.

Now, in truth, WD-40 isn't the best protectant. And if you leave iron outside only protected with WD-40, you are likely to have rusting iron on you hands. But that would be in spite of the WD-40, rather than because of it.
 
I don't think you have ruined it, I do this..
Wash with very warm water and ( and sorry to say guys I use .... ) dishwashing liquid, when the d/w liquid is in there I work those blades to hang...
I then immediately rinse thoroughly with very warm water....
Now I go out to my garage, and crank up my compressor, but before I use WD4O ( because it does repel all water ) go ballistic with WD4O.....again work those blades like crazy.....
Now get your air gun and blow out all the joints - be very thorough at this stage...
Back inside...get your Mineral oil out and drown those joints in Mineral Oil..and work those blades like crazy...go hard and keep adding oil...
rag, extra good wipe over, one drop of M/Oil in joints and if your knife is gritty after this, pm me and I'll send you my address :D.
If your knife wasn't gritty before this but is now I would say repeat the process once more, and don't forget in most cases the joints will free up with use, persevere and your knife will be a treasure.
 
If all else fails, and you get tired of fiddling with it, please send for disposal to: Omar Hallum, Bla Bla Bla street. Dallas Georgia. :D Even if it won't open and close easily, it is still a good knife, just because it is a Barlow!

Blessings,

Omar
 
You may have pulled up a burr on either the tang or the backspring. Did you oil the joints immediately after washing it, or did you work it while dry at some point? That's a big no-no. Folks can clean the knives, that's fine, but those joints need to be thoroughly oiled right after the knife is dry, and before you start opening and closing it. WD-40 doesn't cut it as a lubricant, there's a LOT of pressure between the backspring and the tang, especially on a square end, and once you hit the transition point between the square end and the run-up, you run the risk of scraping some metal off and across the spring. this will both make the action rough and cause the blade to catch on that transition point, which is likely why you have to help it close. You may be able to see this if you can peer at the backspring from the end of the knife as the tang is sliding over it. If I were you I'd oil it GENEROUSLY with something that's got a little body to it, like motor oil, then give the blade try. Work it back and forth quickly and many times, maybe ten or so. You're trying to break that corner. Sometimes this works ok, or at least lessens the roughness. Another slightly less likely scenario is that you've got a bit of metal caught between the tang and the liner, causing the blade to bind. You should be able to see a curved scratch on either the liner or the tang if this is the case. If you can see damage to the backspring or tang, and this doesn't help, most likely the knife would have to be dismantled and the backspring and tang smoothed out.

One other thing, it's possible that the liners are to tight against the blade as well, which would also prevent the blade from closing (although if that were the only reason you wouldn't be experiencing that scraping). If you can wedge a very thin piece of metal shim between the tang and liner of one of the blades (open blade half way and close it against the shim just a bit until it spreads the liner), you should be able to give both blades a bit more room. This can be a little tricky, plus you run the risk of popping the bolster pin. Just go easy if this appears to be the problem. Above all get that knife oiled well!

Eric
 
ea42 said:
You may have pulled up a burr on either the tang or the backspring. Did you oil the joints immediately after washing it, or did you work it while dry at some point? That's a big no-no. Folks can clean the knives, that's fine, but those joints need to be thoroughly oiled right after the knife is dry, and before you start opening and closing it. WD-40 doesn't cut it as a lubricant, there's a LOT of pressure between the backspring and the tang, especially on a square end, and once you hit the transition point between the square end and the run-up, you run the risk of scraping some metal off and across the spring. this will both make the action rough and cause the blade to catch on that transition point, which is likely why you have to help it close. You may be able to see this if you can peer at the backspring from the end of the knife as the tang is sliding over it. If I were you I'd oil it GENEROUSLY with something that's got a little body to it, like motor oil, then give the blade try. Work it back and forth quickly and many times, maybe ten or so. You're trying to break that corner. Sometimes this works ok, or at least lessens the roughness. Another slightly less likely scenario is that you've got a bit of metal caught between the tang and the liner, causing the blade to bind. You should be able to see a curved scratch on either the liner or the tang if this is the case. If you can see damage to the backspring or tang, and this doesn't help, most likely the knife would have to be dismantled and the backspring and tang smoothed out.

One other thing, it's possible that the liners are to tight against the blade as well, which would also prevent the blade from closing (although if that were the only reason you wouldn't be experiencing that scraping). If you can wedge a very thin piece of metal shim between the tang and liner of one of the blades (open blade half way and close it against the shim just a bit until it spreads the liner), you should be able to give both blades a bit more room. This can be a little tricky, plus you run the risk of popping the bolster pin. Just go easy if this appears to be the problem. Above all get that knife oiled well!

Eric
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Unfortunately I did work it when it was completely dry. That is when things went downhill. I've flushed it several times now with WD-40, catching the excess in a container, and there are lots of brass particles in it, like brass dust. Also, I have those curved scratches on both sides of the tang.

The feel is much better now. My only complaint is that both blades are missing the closing snap. I'll try shimming as you suggested. I don't think I'm up for dismantling it, so if nothing else works I may stick it back in my knife box for posterity, or give it to someone less picky.
 
Racuda I know I'm late but try some 3 in 1 oil let it soak in, wrap your knife blade in a paper towel or cloth sit on your front porch and work the fire out of it. Im a counter with everything I do with my knives open and close it a 100 times keep wiping the back spring to keep em clean. Most important be patient. I don't use wd40 for anything to me it just holds the dirt and particles where they're not needed.
if you feel it needs washed with soap and water make the water hot as you can, blow it out with a blow dryer and oil it while its hot.
Good luck and God Bless
Tracy
 
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