Did you give up on folders alltogether?

B

bladez68

Joined
Nov 16, 2001
Messages
25
You know I've been considering buying a folder for EDC last resort self-defense use but after reading about locks failing (even on top of the line knives likes MT Socom) maybe I should give up on the idea alltogether and start looking for a fixed blade and various carrying options... main concerns would be to find a fixed blade that isn't too big, very light and then looking for various carrying options.

How many of you guys have gave up on folders and why?

Maybe I'm exaggerating, but it sure would be nice not to have a lock failure to worry about... reading about people badly cutting themselves because their knife didn't have a good handle and lacked a guard (the recent butcher story) makes you think twice of what to buy... and if you put everything into consideration there's not really a lot of folders to even consider (good grip (need to be g-10 material or so), strong lock, some kind of guard on the handle etc) hmm the only one I can think of from the top of my head is Emerson Commander but what kind of lock does it have?

In an older thread I asked about BM 750 vs MT Socom and most recommended the Socom... but then it seems the BM 750 got a stronger lock... ah, it's so hard to decide.
:rolleyes:
 
Although the reasons you give are quite good, I could never give up on folders. First, I do not carry for self defense, so lock failure under stress is much less urgent for me. A second factor that makes fixed blades less important is that there are many jurisdictions where straight knives are illegal to carry. Finally, I like folders. That said, going fixed blade is perfectly fine.
 
Emersons are liner-locks; my experience with them in the form of a P-SARK has been positive. It locks up securely every time, with no blade play, has passed the application of pressure to the back of the blade with my hands (i.e., trying to fold the knife while open), and has passed a moderate spine-whack test.
That said, the same amount of money you'd put into a Commander can get you any one of a number of fixed blades that would be tougher, and probably as fast (depending on carry style and how comfortable you are with the Wave) to deploy. Depending on your states laws regarding the Wave, you might even be saved some legal trouble by going with a fixed blade.
I can recommend Strider's Concealable Backup series, which you may be able to find used for under $200, Neal Blackwood's small fixed blades, and Bob Doggett's small fixed blades as being affordable, high-quality tools that are also slender enough to be discretely carried. I'm sure there are a bunch of other custom makers who make similar blades, and I've heard good things about the CRKT Kasper/Polkowski Companion, which is intended in a similar vein.
 
I'm actually the opposite, I've given up on fixed blades.
Donald.
(Excuse me as I now realize this does'nt address the question)
 
I don't think there's any doubt that a fixed blade, given the proper size, blade configuration, etc., for whatever its' intended purpose, is the best tool for any cutting task. That being said, I just like (excuse me, LOVE) folders! :D
 
Folders are my favorite knives. Especially well made traditional pocket knives. If you are talking self defense or really hard usage knives then I would choose a fixed blade. I now carry a neck knife for heavier tasks. This works out great as it lets me carry a multi blade folder or gents knife and still have a heavier knife available if needed.
 
In my younger (and crazier) days I was in several knife fights and have the scars to prove it. None of those scars are from a knife (including slipjoints) that ever closed on me. But, then again I never was one of these knife experts with the backslashes and other fancy stuff. I haven't been in a fight in over 30 years, and although I carry several knives none of them are weapons. I live in NYC and many people think it's a dangerous place to live. It is if you aren't aware of what's going on. I don't get myself in situations that I have to fight my way out of. If I did a knife would not be my primary weapon, "Feet don't fail me now!" :D

All kidding aside, I'm as ready as anybody to defend myself or my wife should the situation arise, and so by the way is my wife. I've seen her kick a$$ and she will surprise and hurt you if cornered. But, this attitude of "Should I give up folders?" is just BS. If you live someplace that's more dangerous than NYC, move. If you're affraid to wander outside because you may need a knife to defend yourself from hordes of BG's, stay inside. If you think you're going to be in a knife fight and not get cut, you're mistaken. Carry a knife that's practical for your everyday uses, learn to defend yourself as if you had no knife at all. Should all else fail and you need that knife as a weapon, don't flash it, stab to soft tissue and leave backslashes to the "experts". :rolleyes:
 
Exactly what Phil said ! And my hat is off to ya Phil for the superb advise/info.

In the "real world". . .knives are nothing more than handy little tools. There are "jobs" in the "real world" that use knives for more than just tools. But, those are few and far between. I've actually had one of those jobs and I can count on one hand the number of times that I drew my blade(s) in a offensive or defensive posture.

Never ever. . .have I drawn a blade to protect myself on US or friendly soil.

If you do ~ you're in a place that you shouldn't be in the first place. And, if you're that close to a "bad-guy" ~ you've screwed up.

Beside, ya always have to be concerned what the other guy is carrying.

The best thing to do ~ cut your losses and walk.
 
Great advise from Phil, and GigOne. I've always been taught that the best weapon is right between your two ears.

I have not given up on fixed baldes,but in this wonderful state you can only carry a fixed blade in "plain view" or not concealed. Yeah, I am sure that all the people down town would just love to see a guy walking around with a Trailmaster Bowie strapped to his side. So, they are great for hunting/camping knife but pretty much useless for EDC knives.

I think people who want a folder should get one, however, I would check it out before buying one. I own a Commander and it is a great knife the thing is very fast with the wave. But the liner lock is way too thin IMHO especially for the $$. I have other knives that have very solid lock-ups. Be a smart consumer do some research and check things out before shelling out the cash. Purchasing the "wrong" knife could be disappointing or dangerous should the lock fail.
 
Bladez68,
I can understand your concerns but I have the solution:
Get a Balisong!

You can open and close it with one hand and it has THE most reliable lock ever!
And they're just TOO COOL!

The only possible snag is the legality of it in your city/county/state.

Good luck,
Allen.
 
I carry folders five days a week, and they are an important part of my tactical preparedness. I am forced to do this by the policies of my employer. Not all folders are created equal, but generally, anything can be used as an improvised weapon, you just have to keep its limitations in mind. That goes for work knives too.

I do carry fixed blades whenever I can, weekends and evenings. My favorite carries are around 4" in blade length, and because of California's open carry requirement, I carry them on my belt. In over a year of regular carry, I have only had some one notice the knife two times. Once was a parking attendant at a shopping mall, the second by a family friend at a dinner party. I call that no problems. Actually, having your daily carry noticed gives you an opportunity to educate people about the benefits of carrying a cutting tool.

If you feel that your life style will allow you to carry a fixed blade as your primary EDC, then I heartily recommend that you give it a try. Folders have their place, but fixed blades are more dependable. There are a lot of really great "neck" knives available these days, in the 2.5" to 3.5" range that make excellent EDC utility knives and would serve very well as a last-resort defensive weapons. These can be inconspicuously carried in a variety of ways, depending on the laws where you live. My favorite way to carry, if it were legal here in CA., would be a simple slip sheath on a 4" knife that allows me to attach the sheath to my belt and tuck it under my belt any number of places: IWB, hip, reverse draw, etc.
 
I use both folders and fixed blades. Folders are convenient for carry in areas where fixed blades would be cumbersome or otherwise not permited, so I can never give up on folders. I think the problem is that people expect their folders to perform as if they where fixed blades, but the truth is that no folder, no matter what locking mechanism is used, will ever match a fixed blade.

There is always a chance of failure in any locking mechanism, no matter what lock is used. With fixed blades, there is no blade play to deal with, and there is no fear of a blade folding up on your fingers. Opening packages, whittling, skinning an animal can be well accomplished with a folder or fixed blade, but if I'm going to carry a knife for serious defensive use, or if I'm out in the bush hacking away at tree limbs, I'd go with a fixed blade. For everday utility tasks or as a defensive backup, a folder works just fine.
 
HECK NO!. I carry my REKAT Sifu and Carnivour Cub everywhere I go. I trust my REKAT folders 100%, as I have never had a problem with any of them!.:).
 
Circumstances permitting I carry a fixed blade for self defense purposes, but most of the time I carry folders.
I trust in the lock mechanism and the handle of my folders because I have tested them in view of the expectant stress more than once.
 
The first rule of knife fighting is RUN AWAY!!! That important aside, your question is about what to have on you when you can't run away. If you were in a situation where you would require a weapon to get out of it, then you are at the second rule of knife fighting. That rule is simply, if you are going to knife fight, have a knife.

So, don't give up on folders if you won't carry a fixed blade. If you have no problem carrying a fixed blade, sell your folders then.

Personally, I rarely carry a fixed blade. I may have one in a bag with me on occasion, and sometimes for a while when I venture out of my house I will have a small fixed blade on me (those 4" fixed blades, as Steve pointed out, are great.) Otherwise, most of the time if I have a knife on me it will be a folder. I won't give up on folders just yet. If I did, I'd be rendering myself defenseless.

Now, remember that I said this assumes you are in a position where you NEED a knife. I have 7+ years of MA training under my belt. I am confident that when I pass by the typical drunk that I may encounter in the rough part of down town, I can run away just fine. If I have to fight, I have the empty hand skills to do what needs to be done. but I am smart enough to realize that I may not be able to take on packs of sumbass teenagers that tend to roam around on occasion. I know that sometimes these punks have weapons on themselves as well. So, I have my utility knife with me that would be pressed into self defense duty.

Also, the argument was made that one should just avoid places and persons where you may need to use a knife in self defense! THat is great advice, but not a good enough argument for you not to carry for self defense. One day I was lounging in a chair at home watching t.v. and playing with my Cold Steel LTC kukri. By playing I mean just holding it, appreciating the knife. In burst a woman crying and very wooried, asking me to protect her. A few second later popped in her abusive boyfriend. In that case, the crappy situation found me. i'd like to think that the kukri in my right hand was part of the reason that the bad guy left. I did stop the guy inside at my door, told him firmly to leave and I pushed him towards the door with my free hand. But thanks to me having a knife on me, I had backup just in case.

Now, about knives themselves. You have to realize that these are mechanical things with strengths and weaknesses. If I am in a situation where I need a knife to get out of it, I'd rather have a slip joint folder on me than nothign at all! As Phil said, you have to learn how to use your gear properly. Find a folder with a generous finger cut out. Something like a benchmade AFCK handle is awesome for that. If the sscales on your folder are smooth, get out some sand paper and roughen them up a bit. Or send the knife to a maker who is willing for some bucks to sandblast your scales. Get a knife that is build around the lock. Folders like the TOPS CQT series are supposed to be real tough. E-mail Brian Jones and ask him about these folders. the Buck Strider is supposed to be big and beefy as well. CRKT makes folders liek the Kasper series with the LAWKS system. LAWKS is just a gizmo that interferes with the liner so that the liner can't close without you manipulating the LAWKS safety.

Again, let me reiterate my main points and tie it all together. If you are in a situation where you NEED a knife to get out of it, you will NEED to have a knife on you. If you can't or won't go fixed, folding is your only option. A lsip joint in these situation sis better than no folder. Get a folder that is designed for retention (AFCK, CRKT kasper designs, etc.) There are some great locks out there, learn about them. Don't be afraid to tweak your defensive folder. Sand those smooth scales so that they are grippy. If you are wanting the best self defense folder, save up for a custom. And whatever you carry, if you carry with self defense in mind at all you'd better train with it. Even draw and opening drills will make you more useful in a self defense situation.

Here's one drill for you. Stand infront of the t.v. with your folder in your usual carry position. Everytime a particular character on a show appears, draw, open and slash. Replace your knife. Repeat.

God luck.
 
You want small effective and inexpensive fixed blades. Check out Newt Livesays Woo, Celt and Steel NRG neck knives. They have cord wrapped handles and a big finger cut out in front of the blade. Grip is dynamite. Try it on a phone book you will see. The sheaths are terrific. You grasp with one hand and pull away from yourself keeping the other hand clear and after a good tug out they come. But they are NOT coming out by accident. Perfect tension. He sells a belt and boot clip, but with the holes in the sheath its easy to make a IWB belt loop out of para cord. You can also just loop the para cord through the necks holes around a belt loop and then slip it into your waist or pocket. Again deploy into reverse grip by yanking it out and away from your body. All less than 25 bucks each. 1095 steel and very stout. Bargain of the century. The Steel NRG looks more utilitarian is a double ground spear point and the celt is a warncliff style blade chisel grind. Woo is tanto chisel grind. Blades are right at 3 inches. If you cant hide these you can not hide anything. A custom leather worker could make some type of pocket sheath for it I am sure. Trick would be right sheath tension to keep it in, and a surefire way to keep the sheath in the pocket during withdrawl of the knife. Something similar to what AG Russel has for their Woodswalker. Livesay has a web site, a simple name search for Wicked Knife Company will find it.
 
If I could carry a fixed blade at all times (open, concealed when appropriate, etc) then I would, but it just doesn't seem to work that way given the current PC climate, employer regulations, State laws, etc., so I carry a folder when any of my fixed blades would come into conflict with one or more of those regulations. It so happens the folder I carry is, more often than not, either my large or small Sebenza, so I don't worry too much about lock failure, but then I can't do back cuts with it either...
 
Wanted to add, that the Microtech Tachyon is now available from WOW distributing. Really a quality Butterfly knife with a mini guard, and of course no chance of lock failure. 200.00 if its legal in your area.
 
I could never give up the convenience and carry flexibility of a folder. During the cold weather months, it's easier to carry more "stuff", but a folder can be carried year round with no problems.

Basically, I find myself carrying a large Sebenza IWB, right side just about at all times. Even in dress pants, it's always there.
 
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