Dietmar Kressler knifemaking technique

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kapanyanyi

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Jun 11, 2019
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Hello everyone,

Nice forum!

My question is about Dietmar Kressler's integral knives. Does anyone here know what technique he uses for his integrals?

I'm under the impression from a previous post (My apologies to Dietmar Kressler) here on bladeforums that he must be using stock removal technique from an entire billet.

Could someone please verify this?

I'm not a knifemaker, just an admirer, so please forgive my ignorance, but here is my question:

If indeed he uses stock removal as his technique does that mean he is not forging his knives?

If so, then how come they can still be so expensive?

Also isn't a non forged knife made only by stock removal result in an inferior product?

As I said very new to this, so please go easy on me, but I would like to understand how Dietmar creates his masterpieces! They are a thing of beauty for sure and surely hope that behind all that prettiness is a quality forged construction.

Thanks again,
Mark
 
^ What Bill said.

Can't tell you about Mr. Kressler way of doing things, but a forged steel knife is not inherently better than one ground from thick stock or cut with a CNC. If you stick with forged steels, you'd be missing out on some really cool new powered steel technologies too. Besides... Even if a knife is forged, the blade is going to be ground to produce an edge.

I buy forged blades for the aesthetics.
 
Thanks both for the swift reply.

My other question is what makes such a huge difference in the prices.

If for example mr.Kressler isn’t forging his knives (one less complexity) his prices are astronomical compared to sone other stock removal guys from same steel RWL. Why such huge differences in price?

I understand that “legend” has some weight and surely the craftsmanship and design is nice but we are talking about at least 5X in the price.

Just curious, thanks.

Also you mentioned powdered metallurgical steels. are some of those knives made using shaping via moulding from hot crucible steels? Do those not even need any stock removal other than for edge shaping? Any disadvantages to this? Eg. no alignment and directionality in steel?

Thanks
 
kapanyanyi said:
Also you mentioned powdered metallurgical steels. are some of those knives made using shaping via moulding from hot crucible steels?
Click to expand...
Not that I've ever heard of. You would need a lot of specialised equipment to do it, and there's not the demand for knives. If you wanted to change the design you would have to retool.
I also don't think you would see a difference compared to CPM rolled stock.
That process is used for con rods and pistons in high end engines, but they are far more complex shapes than knives
 
kapanyanyi said:
Thanks both for the swift reply.

My other question is what makes such a huge difference in the prices.

If for example mr.Kressler isn’t forging his knives (one less complexity) his prices are astronomical compared to sone other stock removal guys from same steel RWL. Why such huge differences in price?

I understand that “legend” has some weight and surely the craftsmanship and design is nice but we are talking about at least 5X in the price.

Just curious, thanks.

Also you mentioned powdered metallurgical steels. are some of those knives made using shaping via moulding from hot crucible steels? Do those not even need any stock removal other than for edge shaping? Any disadvantages to this? Eg. no alignment and directionality in steel?

Thanks
Click to expand...



RWL-34 is PM stainless which can be very difficult to be forged into complicated shape by most knife maker so milling could be the only option.

Finding a big chunk of RWL-34 and milling it into full integral can be even more time/resource consuming than forging, over 70% weight should be lost from this process.

Price is subjective... especially as long as there are still people willing to pay.

Dietmar Kresslar is definitely a well known world class knife maker. While his knife is pricier to others makers with same material/construction it likely to hold value better too in most case.
 
I googled Mr kresslars knives and they are sweet.full integrals with integral spacers.
He is a master on a mill
Stock removal would have to be used a lot on designs that intricate
And they look like they should be expensive
 
Where does he say his knives are Forged? He is a 30 years trained machinist, so he probably uses his skills to make stock removal knives. The reason his knives are so expensive have to do you economy, he is from Germany and man labor in Germany is expensive, and let’s not forget that he is also an engineer. Also, it has to do with interest. If you are selling small quantities of something that a lot of people desire, you can adjust your prices accordingly.

I was also (wrong) under the impression that forged knives are better, but look at Larrins articles! So many things can go wrong when forging that I don’t care about Forged knives anymore.
 
As a parallel to Mr. Kresslar, look at Edmund Davidson. He is a milling genius who does a little clean up on the belt grinder. He gets thousands for a simple dagger where one of us might have a hard time getting $400 for the exact same knife. It is all in the makers name and in the marketing.
 
In the book custom knifemaking by David Darom and Dennis Greenbaum is an article showing how he nakes an integral knife.
If you like his work, you'll love that article

Interesting book btw!
 
Man labor in Germany is not more expensive than in any other similar country. So thats not the reason.

Kressler is in the custom knife business quite long. He succeeded to build up a top reputation and prices. Most makers today will not be able to achieve this, no matter what high quality they produce.

So its not enough to be able to build high class knives. You also need marketing skills, and be able to present yourself and your work.
And maybe you need a little bit of what we call here “ Vitamin B” :)
 
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Thank you all for the very swift answers! and thanks hengelo_77 those seem like great references to read on a Sunday afternoon! ;) Kressler's knives are simnply my favourite in their aesthetics and it seems like I should not worry much about the fact that they are not forged by the master. Thanks all for chiming in!
 
Remember it's all about supply and demand, if demand goes down and supply goes up, prices go down to move the inventory. If demand is high and inventory is low prices normally will go up so it slows demand to a level that is workable with supply.
 
Yes mooniesdl3, I definitely get the economic aspect and exactly because of the fact that Dietmar’s knives are so expensive do I reason that given WHAT they are, the supply must be relatively low for the given demand level, which in my mind had to be tied to quality. (Otherwise every Joe could create a knife like that and supply would be huge, prices relatively low). So I was trying to understand what about his knives make them rare enough on the market. Surely not just marketing in this case for obvious reasons. They surely are beautiful to look at (subjective) but there are many others at lower prices. So it had to be also tied to construction and effort to get high quality product with tight tolerances. This is where my knowledge was lacking in understanding that indeed “purely” stock removal (obviously after the billet has been forged and cast) is not necessarily a sub-standard technique requiring less skill especially at that quality of product level that Dietmar outputs. I guess I have learnt few things from this thread already and thanks everyone again for chining in:

#1 stock removal is not necessarily an inferior technique to producing high quality custom knives especially when in some cases of powdered metallurgical steels you are forced to do it as forging at small shop levels might be totally unfeasible
#2 even forged knives go through stock removal in the end so forging is not as “pure” as I though in the end for obvious practical reasons that you just can’t forge certain shapes
#3 there might actually be little to no benefits in having all the “grain” structure of the metal aligned to one direction by the forge as I hear this might be totally overrated. Plus if you use the billet in the right way it’s alrrady “aligned” from the factory pre- forging

Thanks everyone.
 
You should speak to a purveyor like micheal donato or Nordic knives. They can probably best assist you or maybe better yet, you should ask the maker himself directly -
info@kresslerknives.com

I met Dietmar I believe it was two years ago at the California Custom Knives show and we talked briefly

I could be wrong and I apologize if I am but my understanding from him was that he sends out some of his machining work.

That doesn’t make him any less capable or skilled but I’m finding out more and more that most people don’t really care how you did it .... some care :)
 
Thanks again everyone. I returned to this thread thinking to look at this from a different angle. Rather than just focusing on Dietmar's knives I would like to ask the knife-makers here the following questions:

(i) what is your knifemaking process/technique: e.g.
  1. first: what stock do you start with? anything from re-suing old files, springs to order brand new billets, etc..and also how finished is the billet in terms of shape before you begin your work
  2. second: how do you proceed next (obviously depending on where you started in 1, this vary where you logically have to pick it up). anything from stock removal, forging, combination, etc,.?
  3. heat treat
  4. anneal
  5. finish
(ii) what do you admire most about / what is the hardest aspect of your steps of the knifemaking process (as per point (i) above) ... you can answer this wrt to your own technique or point out other techniques that you admire the most/find the hardest to do well in other techniques

Thanks, really curious of the answers!

cheers,
Kapanyanyi
 
hello. i do almost all stock removal.
1) most makers use known steels from trusted suppliers. usually they are surface ground to about 220 grit, and in a rectangular shape.
2) next i scribe the outline of the knife i want, and drill the handle holes, cut out the profile and do the edge bevels.
3) i send my knives to be professionally heat treated by peter's.
4) i do not anneal, that is usually done before step #2 of you are using a file that is already hardened. steel suppliers sell steel already annealed.
5) i finish my blades up to 3000 grit and buff. handle materials usually to 1000 grit and buff.

in my opinion, the hardest aspect is getting everything to look perfect and symmetrical.
 
john april said:
hello. i do almost all stock removal.
1) most makers use known steels from trusted suppliers. usually they are surface ground to about 220 grit, and in a rectangular shape.
2) next i scribe the outline of the knife i want, and drill the handle holes, cut out the profile and do the edge bevels.
3) i send my knives to be professionally heat treated by peter's.
4) i do not anneal, that is usually done before step #2 of you are using a file that is already hardened. steel suppliers sell steel already annealed.
5) i finish my blades up to 3000 grit and buff. handle materials usually to 1000 grit and buff.

in my opinion, the hardest aspect is getting everything to look perfect and symmetrical.
Click to expand...

thanks for the answer John.
I’m a little confused by what you mean not doing annealing.

my understand is that you have to go through the steps
1) shaping the steal (forging or stock removal Or combo)
2, quenching / heat treating
3, annealing
4, final sharpening / polishing / buffing

but you mentioned you already receive the stock as annealed??? That’s surprising as you mentioned you send the knife to be professionally heat treated in your step 3, but then the knife would come back way too hard and brittle, so even if the original billet was annealed it would have lost all that in the heat treatment and would have to be re annealed after you receive it from heat treatment. Unless you wanted to end up with an extremely hard, but brittle steel. Could you please clarify.
Thanks!
 
kapanyanyi said:
thanks for the answer John.
I’m a little confused by what you mean not doing annealing.

my understand is that you have to go through the steps
1) shaping the steal (forging or stock removal Or combo)
2, quenching / heat treating
3, annealing
4, final sharpening / polishing / buffing

but you mentioned you already receive the stock as annealed??? That’s surprising as you mentioned you send the knife to be professionally heat treated in your step 3, but then the knife would come back way too hard and brittle, so even if the original billet was annealed it would have lost all that in the heat treatment and would have to be re annealed after you receive it from heat treatment. Unless you wanted to end up with an extremely hard, but brittle steel. Could you please clarify.
Thanks!
Click to expand...

This is a misunderstanding due to difference in terminology used between Americans versus some Europeans (and/or other countries). After heat treat/hardening, Americans call the heating used to lower the hardness and restore some toughness as "tempering" but some in other countries call it "annealing".

In America, annealing usually refers to the process of making the steel very soft prior to stock removal and drilling, and this is done because grinding and drilling hard steel wears down abrasives and drill bits very quickly.

Here's a general outline of how most people make their knives...

If forging, forge out the shape and possibly some geometry like distal taper, rough bevel, integral bolsters.

Normalize, then refine the grain with descending heats. Then anneal with an extended heat at proper temperature (or heat followed by slow cooling).

Stock removal (typically grinding with abrasives) to flatten, refine the profile/shape, and to rough grind the bevel. For thin knives, some makers won't do any bevel grind at this stage to help avoid warp during heat treat. Drill holes in the tang if needed.

Heat treat/harden the steel by heating to appropriate temperature and holding for the appropriate amount of time for the carbon and any alloying elements to distribute properly. Quenching/cooling the steel fast enough to form the hardened form of steel (typically martensite) is part of the heat treatment because if you just heat the steel without cooling it at the proper rate, it doesn't harden properly.

Temper immediately after heat treatment to avoid breaking the very hard and brittle steel. Some steels will benefit from cryogenic/cold treatment. Check straightness and fix if warped.

Finish the bevel grind to get the finally blade geometry. Progress through to finer grit abrasive to give a fine surface finish. This can involve powered grinding then moving to hand sanding if desired.

Shape and attach the materials for the handle. Sand and finish the handle. Sharpen the cutting edge. Drink a beer and admire your craftsmanship or cry because it sucks. Do it all over again because you can stop whenever you want but you just don't want to.
 
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