Difference between the 0560/0561 and the hinderer?

[jehicks87]

So... I have been getting stoked about two of the new ZT models coming out this year. And well, I started thinking about maybe picking up an 0560 or 0561 sometime. So I researched the knife they're based off of.

Doing so, I found out that Hinderer does military pricing on the xm-18's and -24's. It's still a tick over $100 above the price of an 0560 but hundreds less than what I have seen hinderers go for online.

Basically, is the difference between an actual XM-18 worth the extra $100 or so? What *exactly* are the differences between the ZT 0560 and the XM-18? In all honesty, I love the milling of the ZT's on the titanium side, and I know the XM's don't have that. That, and the blade steel, are the only real differences I can tell.

Please... anybody have both and can fill me in?

 

[chester22]

Its like Comparing a BMW 745 and a Rolls Royce Ghost.....They are both pretty much the same chassis and everything. Your mostly paying for the Name, Attention to Detail and Materials used.. Also KAI can buy materials in huge quantities where as Hinderer doesn't make as many knives so the cost involved is greater..

I'm sure in the same hard use one would serve you just as well as the other. To me its all in the Name. I personally think the ZT looks better.

 

[NeverMore1701]

It's hard to describe exactly, but yes I do feel that my Hinderer is worth every penny of its $385 cost.

 

[knife2Agunfight]

If you can get a Hinderer for the price that Rick charges, it's worth it. They are in no way worth the $600+ price tag they go for in the secondary market.

I prefer a ZT 0560 over a Hinderer any day. I like ELMAX better than S35VN, and they are almost the same knife. I'm not going to pay hundreds of dollars more so I can get a name and different ergonomics.

 

[Random Dan]

Buy one and find out. If you decide you don't like it you'll have no trouble reselling it (for double the amount you paid for it )

 

[Capbyrd]

Biggest difference to me is the weight. The Hinderer is noticeably heavier. But I don't find the XM to be too heavy, the ZT is just ridiculously light. I like both but the XM still gets daily duty in my pocket. For me, its just ever so slightly cooler. But its all subjective.

 

[EZ Bake]

Biggest difference to me is the weight. The Hinderer is noticeably heavier. But I don't find the XM to be too heavy, the ZT is just ridiculously light. I like both but the XM still gets daily duty in my pocket. For me, its just ever so slightly cooler. But its all subjective.

Out of curiosity, is that an XM-18 in 3.5" or an XM-24? It seems like with that choil, the XM is significantly longer with less useable blade (which isn't a problem for me, but it makes it very difficult to determine how long it is and how it feels in the hand).

 

[PC87]

Is that the Cryo 1 or 2?

 

[jehicks87]

capbyrd, thank you for the side-by-side pictures. That helped me decide on a 0560. I appreciate it!

 

[Allen R.]

I'm not a fan of the 560 and I've owned a few of them, Don't get me wrong it's a good design but all the ones I've bought have had some sort of issue, so i sold them all off, I'm sure a hinderer wouldn't have those issues, and If I was still in the military I would scoop one up in a heartbeat, but I kinda have a rule with knives, If I can buy a gun for around the same price as a knife , I'm not buying the knife, now that's just me, and I've looked at a few 400.00 dollar knives , about bought one last week matter of fact, but I just couldn't do it , I had it in the cart ready to check out handle scale of my choice with blade steel of my choice, but I couldn't do it the thought of OMG if I lose a 400 dollar knife keep running through my head or, these are supposed to be hard use knives are you really even gonna use it or be scared to carry it , kept running through my head, so i got a southard flipper for the cheap at nationalknives.com I think it was like 227.00 shipped , and still have money in the bank for another knife. BTW the knife I was gonna buy was a strider sng in cpm154 FWIW

 

[Capbyrd]

Out of curiosity, is that an XM-18 in 3.5" or an XM-24? It seems like with that choil, the XM is significantly longer with less useable blade (which isn't a problem for me, but it makes it very difficult to determine how long it is and how it feels in the hand).

Its an XM-18 3.5 inch. The pictures are a bit deceiving because of angles. The best picture for size is the one looking down on the closed spine of the knife.

Is that the Cryo 1 or 2?

Cryo 1. These pics are a few months old and to my knowledge, the Cryo 2 still hasn't been released.

capbyrd, thank you for the side-by-side pictures. That helped me decide on a 0560. I appreciate it!

No problem! You will enjoy it, a lot!

 

[Capbyrd]

I also want to point out an issue that I had with the 560. The pocket clip. To me, it was just uncomfortable when using the knife. I used to think it was because it stuck out too far but I think, after seeing the picture above, that it was too close to the edge of the knife. Notice how the XM clip centers itself over the LBS whereas the ZT clip stays out straight over the lockbar.

 

[mcraft]

I wish I could tell you that I had experience with both, but I cannot spend the $ on the secondary market one when I can get the 560 (which is my FAVORITE EDC). I can tell you that I have had no problems with any of my 5 560/1's under hard use or inspection, and if I did I think KAI would take care of it in a jiff.

 

[bdmicarta]

I like the 0561, mostly because of the milling and contour of the scales, but then I've never handled a real XM.

People have said one difference is the name, of course a big difference is the resale value. The 0561 is pushing the limit of my budget, I don't know which I would pick if money was not an object.

I read about problems with the detent of the 0561. Mine is very hard to release but I've read about others that are too light. I would hope that the more expensive brand would have this right but I don't know if that is the case or not.

 

[mcraft]

I like the 0561, mostly because of the milling and contour of the scales, but then I've never handled a real XM.

People have said one difference is the name, of course a big difference is the resale value. The 0561 is pushing the limit of my budget, I don't know which I would pick if money was not an object.

I read about problems with the detent of the 0561. Mine is very hard to release but I've read about others that are too light. I would hope that the more expensive brand would have this right but I don't know if that is the case or not.

Whats the budget? On "that auction site" I have never paid more than $200 and that was for a BNIB etched with "Death Awaits" logo 561. Avg I pay for NIB is $175, or if you want to EDC Dave has Blems for $175 too. Or you can always do a trade, there are plenty of opportunities in the trade forum. Of course if you pre-ordered like many, I am assuming $240-$260. Finally, if something is wrong with yours, just send it to KAI, they will take care of you, they are a good CS company no doubt. Get her fixed up!

As far as Hinderer design, that Cryo is crazy, cheap as all get out but a fantastic blade too, one of those ones I want to buy a bunch of for no logical reason, it just seems like such a slick deal!

 

[para_cord]

So... I have been getting stoked about two of the new ZT models coming out this year. And well, I started thinking about maybe picking up an 0560 or 0561 sometime. So I researched the knife they're based off of.

Doing so, I found out that Hinderer does military pricing on the xm-18's and -24's. It's still a tick over $100 above the price of an 0560 but hundreds less than what I have seen hinderers go for online.

Basically, is the difference between an actual XM-18 worth the extra $100 or so? What *exactly* are the differences between the ZT 0560 and the XM-18? In all honesty, I love the milling of the ZT's on the titanium side, and I know the XM's don't have that. That, and the blade steel, are the only real differences I can tell.

Please... anybody have both and can fill me in?

To me its not even close. An XM feels like a handmade, high quality tool. A ZT feels like a mass-produced, nothing special knife. My ZT also had an extremely weak detent (which I hear is a problem now). They are WORLDS apart IMO, but I'm a stickler for details. I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't really notice or care about the differences. If you really can get an XM for only 100 more it's an absolute no-brainer to go with the "real" Hinderer.

Good luck and thanks for your service.

 

[mcraft]

To me its not even close. An XM feels like a handmade, high quality tool. A ZT feels like a mass-produced, nothing special knife. My ZT also had an extremely weak detent (which I hear is a problem now). They are WORLDS apart IMO, but I'm a stickler for details. I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't really notice or care about the differences. If you really can get an XM for only 100 more it's an absolute no-brainer to go with the "real" Hinderer.

Good luck and thanks for your service.

Hmmm, I was activy duty USN, I will go see if I am qualified. If so, maybe time to find out for myself, once budget allows, I owe Dave # for the 1760DAM first though. Anyone know how to get into the organ donating black market ?

 

[netidolweb]

Since i can't get XM directly from RH, i don't mind owning some nice design of ZT 0550s & 560s i've collected. At least i still can get CRK without have to pay premium price compare to XM from open market.

 

[jehicks87]

well shoot... after going and doing more research I've found quite a few threads all along the internet about blade play on the 0560's. I love a big, beefy folder, and I really dig the look of the 0560's milling, but if I spend $200+ on a knife and it comes in with blade play, I think I'd use it for a hammer. lol

More research is needed... and the quest continues...

 

[Capbyrd]

I can honestly say that I had no blade play on my 560. Remember, the complaint department is much louder than the happy with everything department. And there were thousands of these knives out there.