Difference between these two steels for Hard use / Survival knives:

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WickedMemory

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Mar 1, 2014
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Hey guys, I'm new here. I just joined this forum, I've been reading and reading so many things about knives and steels and some really awesome comparisons, I really had to register here.

So, I would like to ask you something, I heard that the CPM 3V outperforms 1095 in everything for a survival or hard use knife.
I heard it's extremely tough, and has a LITTLE less wear resistance than CPM S30V (Got this from a graphic I found).

https://www.crucible.com/PDFs/\DataSheets2010\dsS30Vv1 2010.pdf

I also have read that it's not a stainless steel nor a High carbon steel, It's more like an hybrid, Beating 1095.

I don't know how sharp it can get.

Price it's not a factor for my comparison/question (I've heard that 1095 is a cheap but good steel when well H) I'm just talking about physical properties of these two types of steel.

So theorically, Is it true that the CPM 3V steel beats/outperforms 1095 in almost everything for a survival / hard use knife when BOTH steels are properly Heat Treated? (Would it be a good replacement/upgrade for a 1095 surival knife blade if money were not a problem?)


Thank you guys for your time! :cool:
 
I do t think you can ever go wrong with 3V. However that is not to say 1095 is a bad steel. 1095 is probably suitable for anyone who uses a knife. 3V is just at the top of the food chain for toughness.
 
If it were me and I had a choice of 3V or 1095 it would really depend on the purpose. Personally, I carry 3V every day (bark river bravo necker I, and also have a gunny in 3V as well for bigger tasks). I used to use mine for tower work - zip ties, tape, stripping coax, peeling apart sealed connectors, etc. 3V will out-perform 1095 all day long. That isn't to say it doesn't need touched up, because it does, it just holds up a lot better than 1095 ever would. The knife my necker I replaced was an ESEE Izula II - 1095. The size of the necker I is right about the same, so it worked out great for me.

All that having been said, my camp knives are 1095 - ESEE 4 (most used - food prep, general in-camp work) and an ESEE 6 (use it for wood work - splitting logs, other utility purposes I don't want to use the 4 for). There is a reason the blades are painted as 1095 will discolor/rust. Though, I keep my blades in good shape so it isn't ever an issue. The edge discoloring doesn't bother me anyway, but a quick brush up on the paper wheel takes it off.

In my experience you can get a lot nicer edge on 1095 than you can, with normal methods, on 3V. Using Edge Pro stones and diamond stropping spray I can still get a good edge on 3V, enough for my purposes, but it just doesn't compare to 1095. As to how sharp you need/want your blades, that's up to you. There are methods for getting 3V super sharp too, its just a bit pricy (DMT diamond stones would be a great option).

On a side note - I reprofiled my Gunny to a flat grind. I am not sure if I should have done that though. The good part is I can run it on my Edge Pro and I have some diamond stones for it so all in all I can put a much better edge on it than I can my necker. Though, having the factory convex profile would still be nice. To sharpen my necker I use the Edge Pro stones on a table with non-slip material (toolbox liner) to keep them in place. Then I rock the blade back and forth to keep the convex profile. Lots more work and harder to get "right".

Side note 2 - 3V has a high concentration of vanadium carbide - which is what makes it so "tough". Silicon carbide (normal stones) is softer so the vanadium stays on the steel as you grind. What you end up doing is knocking out the vanadium by cutting away the material around. This leaves bumps and holes on the steel = why you aren't able to get it as sharp. Whereas diamonds are hard enough to cut the vanadium so you get a nicer edge. To really refine the edge I'd say you need to start the diamonds around 600 grit or so. I believe my diamond stones are 6, 3, and 1 micron, then 1 micron spray for the strop (balsa is what I use mostly, by the way). The better route would be to get a "fine" DMT stone to start it off as it can do more real "grinding", my stones are diamond paste on glass blanks (if you know what the polishing tapes are from Edge Pro it is like that - just diamonds and glue = not for hard use, just a touch to polish).
 
If cost was no issue, I would pick 3V over 1095 every time. That said, 1095 isn't a bad steel and there are many, many more options available in 1095 and the majority of them are much less expensive than anything in 3V.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
If cost was no issue, I would pick 3V over 1095 every time. That said, 1095 isn't a bad steel and there are many, many more options available in 1095 and the majority of them are much less expensive than anything in 3V.
Click to expand...

+1 :thumbup: 1095 does most everything I need in a fixed blade.
 
I love 3V, and it has become one of my favorite all around steels lately, although I would have to question those graphics. It really depends heavily on the heat treat for each steel - I find it hard to believe that 3V is tougher than A2 if the geometry is fitting for each knife. The second chart also lists 3V as tougher than 5160 and L6 :suspicion:, and if I'm not mistaken the CATRA data shows 3V having slightly better wear resistance than S30V. The graphs on this stuff always seems subjective, and sometimes uninformed anyway - but that comes back to heat treat; on smaller blades some makers push 3V to above 60 rc and get very different results you would out of 3V at 57-58rc. Different makers do different things with 1095 too...

I really like 3V for a good sized outdoor knife though :thumbup: it has enough stain resistance to hold up, is tougher than most, and gets really sharp in my experience. I used to feel like HC steels would get much sharper too, but I don't know if it's noticeable if you have the correct sharpening equipment and technique, and I don't think it's enough to make a difference for a general use knife anyway. That's an interesting point about diamonds being able to cut the vandium carbides along the edge, it makes sense but I didn't think that was quite that simple. It only seems right that this would be the case if the grit was fine enough to act on the same level as the size of carbide distribution - 600 grit you say? What is the size of an average Vandium carbide?
 
A Justice said:
It only seems right that this would be the case if the grit was fine enough to act on the same level as the size of carbide distribution - 600 grit you say? What is the size of an average Vandium carbide?
Click to expand...

I don't want to get off topic too much, but if you re-read my post I referenced the 600 grit as a starting point (see below quote, added bold and underline) - sort of like going from 80 grit on wood to 320 - you will still be left with the gauges from the 80 after a long time of "grinding" with the 320. If you step the grits you get a lot better results. In my range I can go down to 1 micron in 3 steps (4 if you consider stropping with 1 micron spray after the 1 micron stone another "step"). Usually I will grind on 600 grit then 1000 grit (SiC stones), then finish with the balsa strop/1 micron spray and skip the 6,3,1 micron stones.

KC8QVO said:
To really refine the edge I'd say you need to start the diamonds around 600 grit or so. I believe my diamond stones are 6, 3, and 1 micron, then 1 micron spray for the strop (balsa is what I use mostly, by the way). The better route would be to get a "fine" DMT stone to start it off as it can do more real "grinding", my stones are diamond paste on glass blanks (if you know what the polishing tapes are from Edge Pro it is like that - just diamonds and glue = not for hard use, just a touch to polish).
Click to expand...
 
Thank you for replying!
I love knives and I was thinking to have a custom in CPM 3V steel,(Most of the knives I find are 1095). Thats why I asked this, thank you for your time.
;)
 
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