A initiate a new thread based on Rick Baums question on my previous thread "triple quench secrets releaved?"
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PIG,
Very interesting thread. .....................In other words, Ed Fowler uses a torch to bring just the desired portion of the blade to critical leaving the spine below critical. By soaking the blade at temp., the whole blade is at critical prior to the quench. Will this have an effect on the toughness (flexibility) of the blade in a positive or negative way? The reason that I ask this question is because my first forged blade was not heated with a torch to isolate the edge from the spine in regards to critical temp. prior to the quench. It was heated in the forge which caused the whole blade to reach critical before I quenched it. Being my first forged blade, I tested it for edge flex and edge holding but did not bend the blade (I'm kind of sentimental, and wanted to keep my first forged blade). The blade performed very well as far as I tested it, but I have always wondered what the difference would be in flexibility if just the edge had been brought to critical instead of the whole blade.
Rick
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I hope more experienced smiths will paricipate too!
I give a short introduction about different methods (not talking about triple quench)I know;
(1) Heat evenly and quench verically to prevent warpage.
Temper the spine separately by torch or other method (edge in water).
(2) Heat only edge and quench horizontally to get though spine (Ed Fowler).
(3) Heat whole blade and quench horizontally only edge. The spine cools more slowly and is then toughter (not really full martensite). Bainite- best case?
(4) Heat evenly and quench verically 3 drops.
First time thin edge is martensite, but thick spine is not fully martensite.
Second time prevents still hot spine to temper the edge too much and cools spine more.
Third time cools also the spine, but so much time spent it is not brittle martensite. Bainite- best case?
(5) Pre quench whole blade. Temper whole blade to "spring level or softer".
Heat only the edge (spine on water). Quench.
More?
My not too experienced opinions:
(1) I tried, the problem is that proper tempering takes lot of time (can you heat 1- 2 hours evenly with torch?). Difficult.
(3) I love.
(4) and (5) I have not tried, seem promising theoretically thinking.
(2) Works by proven tests. I can't understand why totally unhardened spine is good. I experiment with totally unhardened steel bending (thick 5 inch nails) and "spring level" tempered same thicknes pieces. Nails were hopelessly soft compared to any steel queched and tempered "pretty soft" (by the factor 10-20 times softer).
I do undestand that there are many layers of hardness using this method. I do not understand the topmost unhardened layer! To my mind hard and still unbrokeable topmost layer is better! (Only my humble simple opinion!)
pig
___________________
PIG,
Very interesting thread. .....................In other words, Ed Fowler uses a torch to bring just the desired portion of the blade to critical leaving the spine below critical. By soaking the blade at temp., the whole blade is at critical prior to the quench. Will this have an effect on the toughness (flexibility) of the blade in a positive or negative way? The reason that I ask this question is because my first forged blade was not heated with a torch to isolate the edge from the spine in regards to critical temp. prior to the quench. It was heated in the forge which caused the whole blade to reach critical before I quenched it. Being my first forged blade, I tested it for edge flex and edge holding but did not bend the blade (I'm kind of sentimental, and wanted to keep my first forged blade). The blade performed very well as far as I tested it, but I have always wondered what the difference would be in flexibility if just the edge had been brought to critical instead of the whole blade.
Rick
--------------------
I hope more experienced smiths will paricipate too!
I give a short introduction about different methods (not talking about triple quench)I know;
(1) Heat evenly and quench verically to prevent warpage.
Temper the spine separately by torch or other method (edge in water).
(2) Heat only edge and quench horizontally to get though spine (Ed Fowler).
(3) Heat whole blade and quench horizontally only edge. The spine cools more slowly and is then toughter (not really full martensite). Bainite- best case?
(4) Heat evenly and quench verically 3 drops.
First time thin edge is martensite, but thick spine is not fully martensite.
Second time prevents still hot spine to temper the edge too much and cools spine more.
Third time cools also the spine, but so much time spent it is not brittle martensite. Bainite- best case?
(5) Pre quench whole blade. Temper whole blade to "spring level or softer".
Heat only the edge (spine on water). Quench.
More?
My not too experienced opinions:
(1) I tried, the problem is that proper tempering takes lot of time (can you heat 1- 2 hours evenly with torch?). Difficult.
(3) I love.
(4) and (5) I have not tried, seem promising theoretically thinking.
(2) Works by proven tests. I can't understand why totally unhardened spine is good. I experiment with totally unhardened steel bending (thick 5 inch nails) and "spring level" tempered same thicknes pieces. Nails were hopelessly soft compared to any steel queched and tempered "pretty soft" (by the factor 10-20 times softer).
I do undestand that there are many layers of hardness using this method. I do not understand the topmost unhardened layer! To my mind hard and still unbrokeable topmost layer is better! (Only my humble simple opinion!)
pig
