Different steels

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Jun 14, 2013
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So I am new around here, and really want to learn a lot more. Looking at steels can make your head explode! I have a few pretty decent knives, and use them quite a bit. I'm also a big hunter as well, which I happen to use a knife doing also. Here are some of my questions about steels.

Where or how would you group these steels together? Or how would you rank them? What are some of their characteristics of them? Like wear, hardness to sharpen, and such. Are there any I missed? Isnt there something like a T-Rex steel that is supposed to be the bear of all bears, in knife blade steel? Seems like I read something, but I may have the name wrong. Thanks for the help guys. I really hate to be uneducated on something,

V-10
CPM 154
S30V
S35VN
H-1
M390
ZDP 189
CRU WEAR
S90V


These are all tools steels right?
D2
M4
SV3

I realize that these are carbon steels, but what are some of their characteristics, on how they compare?
1095
5160
 
In addition, read the steel FAQ. It's stickied at the top, and can answer a lot of your questions. There is always a lot of discussion (and little agreement) on the "best" steel. Partly because it depends on what you are looking for in a steel.
 
Haa, steels are argued about much here as it's a hot button. Any of these guys could tout their favorite. It's more important you need to read, educate yourself to arrive at a few favorites for your reasons. While educating yourself on this subject spend some time studying over-all blade execution (how it's hollow ground throughout and at the cutting edge or lack) as this will help a blade preform well or not. Plus, learn about heat treating which gives heart and soul to the steel. I would put these last to items as the deal breaker and of greater importance than just the steel. Many times I've seen a mediocre steel preform as well as one of the new hot rock steels because it had those two items correct over the other. Then realize steels are as trendsical as ladies new shoes. Everybody jumps on the new fad and it may not be much better than a top long time staple. But you can bet it's price tag will be the color of a rainbow. DM
 
Well put, David, well put! :D

Understand L2bravo, arguing about steels is our favorite past time! :D
 
Wow, I wasn' trying to start a riot here. LOL I will do some more reading. I was just asking more in line, of which of these steels are more along the lines of "groups" with each other.

What knife/knives did I read that had the CPM-Rex steel in it? Is it a super high end steel? Help me learn more please, so I can join in on the arguments soon! LMAO Thanks guys, I appreciate the help so far.
 
the ones on the list i will give my opinion on:
vg10/154cm (or cpm154)/s30v - i rate these all about the same, excellent for carry knives, a little more involved sharpening them than something in the 440 or aus series. s30v has a different feel when sharpening... i don't know how else to describe it, but it feels like sharpening glass or something really smooth, just no grab to it. s30v and 154 are two of the common comparisons, with the most common comment probably being something to the effect of "154cm holds a razor edge longer, but s30v holds a working edge longer." i'd say vg10 and 154cm are more similar to each other than either is to s30v, but, they're all close enough to be about interchangeable in my opinion.

d2 - a good less than stainless steel. i doubt anyone claims it to be their favorite to sharpen. good edge retention, good toughness, overall good.

1095 - excellent toughness, easy to sharpen, edge retention isn't as great as the others i've commented on, but it's a good steel for larger blades.
 
nevermind someone already posted the links.
 
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the ones on the list i will give my opinion on:
vg10/154cm (or cpm154)/s30v - i rate these all about the same, excellent for carry knives, a little more involved sharpening them than something in the 440 or aus series. s30v has a different feel when sharpening... i don't know how else to describe it, but it feels like sharpening glass or something really smooth, just no grab to it. s30v and 154 are two of the common comparisons, with the most common comment probably being something to the effect of "154cm holds a razor edge longer, but s30v holds a working edge longer." i'd say vg10 and 154cm are more similar to each other than either is to s30v, but, they're all close enough to be about interchangeable in my opinion.

d2 - a good less than stainless steel. i doubt anyone claims it to be their favorite to sharpen. good edge retention, good toughness, overall good.

1095 - excellent toughness, easy to sharpen, edge retention isn't as great as the others i've commented on, but it's a good steel for larger blades.



Thanks for your opinion. Where would you say that S35VN falls in there? As in compared to the S30V.
 
Hi all! I just began collecting folders as I mostly had an interest in kitchen knives. This is a lot of fun but I have bought 9 knives in the last month. I have a caly 3.5 with the vg-10 and a sog flash with the AUG 8 which seems as good as the vg-10 but then again I know nothing lol.
 
Hi all! I just began collecting folders as I mostly had an interest in kitchen knives. This is a lot of fun but I have bought 9 knives in the last month. I have a caly 3.5 with the vg-10 and a sog flash with the AUG 8 which seems as good as the vg-10 but then again I know nothing lol.

AUS-8 will sharpen up more easily and takes a great edge. VG-10 is great steel and can get wicked-sharp, but will test your patience in making it sharp in the first place. Greater carbide content in it, due to higher carbon + chromium (chromium carbides) and some molybdenum as well (adds toughness). Burrs in Spyderco's VG-10 blades are tenacious as all get-out, and that's the biggest hurdle to clear in sharpening these blades. Also have to be careful on ceramics, with VG-10, as too-heavy pressure will bring some of those nasty burrs back. Almost impossible to just break them off, which is a testament to the toughness of the steel. Burrs need to be gently filed off, instead.


David
 
David, can you tell me a little bit about the comparison of S30V and S35VN?

I read some of the links........my head is about to explode! Geez.
 
David, can you tell me a little bit about the comparison of S30V and S35VN?

I read some of the links........my head is about to explode! Geez.

Never tried S35VN, so I can't really make a comparison. My biggest impression with S30V is that it's the most challenging to put a fine edge on, or to polish for that matter. It's loaded with vanadium carbides, which are generally larger than the rest of the grain structure, and also extremely hard; therefore very difficult to hone down to a thin edge, especially if trying to do so without diamond or similar super-hard abrasives.

This is the description from the site I linked earlier, for S35VN. I can't speak for accuracy, though I've generally trusted the same site's descriptions of others I have used/sharpened.

"CPM S35VN(Crucible) - Crucible CPM steel. As I understand it is an evolution of CPM S30V steel. Has Niobium and Nitrogen in it, unlike S30V. Currently it is quite popular with custom makers and several high end production knife companies use it including Spyderco, Rick Hinderer, Spartan Blades, Chris Reeve and many others. Overall, it's a bit tougher alloy compared with CPM S30V, more resistant to chipping as well. However, for the knives optimized purely for edge holding, S30V is still a better choice."


David
 
So I am new around here, and really want to learn a lot more. Looking at steels can make your head explode! I have a few pretty decent knives, and use them quite a bit. I'm also a big hunter as well, which I happen to use a knife doing also. Here are some of my questions about steels.

Where or how would you group these steels together? Or how would you rank them? What are some of their characteristics of them? Like wear, hardness to sharpen, and such. Are there any I missed? Isnt there something like a T-Rex steel that is supposed to be the bear of all bears, in knife blade steel? Seems like I read something, but I may have the name wrong. Thanks for the help guys. I really hate to be uneducated on something,

V-10
CPM 154
S30V
S35VN
H-1
M390
ZDP 189
CRU WEAR
S90V


These are all tools steels right?
D2
M4
SV3

I realize that these are carbon steels, but what are some of their characteristics, on how they compare?
1095
5160

The Zknives links are great, I think it's the best resource for checking out and comparing steels. As others have said, HT and geometry are just as important, if not more important, than blade steel, but the limits of each alloy also play a large role.

As for the steels you mention:

VG-10, 154cm, s35vn and s30v are comparable in all aspects. S30V may be the most wear resistant (edge holding) and tough (resistance to chipping and breaking) , but not by enough to make a very large difference. The difference in S30v and S35vn to the user is that for a very marginal (<10%) loss in edge retention at a given hardness, S35vn gains some toughness and is slightly easier to sharpen. In use, there is little difference. I am very excited to see more Niobium alloys used in knifemaking.

H-1 is a nitrogen steel, which replaces almost all the carbon in the alloy with Nitrogen. This means that for hardenability and toughness comparable to mid-range stainless steel, you gain a complete resistance to corrosion and rust in normal conditions. This means that even for salt water boat knives or dive knives, you have zero worries with rust. H-1 has wear resistance about equal to 420HC, which is to say it is rather low, but an interesting phenomenon shows that when the edge is worked very hard or serrated, it can become very hard and wear resistant, outperforming steels that are ostensibly much more wear resistant.

ZDP189 is a Japanese steel that has few analogs from US or European markets. It's virtue is that it is a very high hardness stainless steel, with very good edge holding. Some have complained, however, that this hardness leads to a drop off in corrosion resistance and toughness that make the knives more delicate than they were first advertized to be. If corrosion is not a big issue and the blade is treated reasonably, however, it is an excellent steel.

M390 and S90V are near the top end of what is being offered in production knives today. Their wear resistance is very high, even higher than fully hardened ZDP-189 while at a at lower hardness. Their toughness is higher as well, making them suitable for larger fixed blades as well as small folders. S90V is somewhat more wear resistant, but at this level, you can't go wrong.

CRUWEAR is a relatively uncommon steel in knives today, but it offers an exceptional blend of toughness and wear resistance. It is definitely not stainless, rather it is a tool steel. It's virtue is it's high toughness even at higher hardness, which makes it a suitable choice even for very large knives. The edge-holding is not quite as high as S90v or M390, but it is still very good.

D2 is the tool steel that all others seem to be compared to. It is comparable in wear resistance to S30V, but slightly less tough. It is a very common steel in knives, especially hunting knives, because it takes an aggressive edge that will cut for a long time, while remaining relatively cheap. There are complaints about this edge, however, with some bemoaning the fact that it is very difficult to sharpen D2 to levels that other steels can achieve easily, due to it's larger carbides. For a tool steel, it has very high Chromium content, which makes it nearly stainless. In my experience, I've never had even a bit of corrosion on a D2 blade.

M4 is my favorite steel at present. It is very wear resistant, above S30V and CRUWEAR, but below S90V. It's virtue is it's toughness, which is higher than S90V and Cruwear even at very high hardness, but below that of 3V, a very tough tool steel that is very popular here on the forum. It is not stainless, but it is more corrosion resistant than plain carbon steels, and has proven easy to maintain in my experience. It is more rust prone than D2, but then again D2 is very nearly stainless. It is also very easy to sharpen, though it is wear resistant, it takes to a strop or ceramic rod very well.

1095 is a plain high-carbon steel. It is very rust prone, but a patina and regular use will make it much more resistant to corrosion. It is the steel most think about when they think of carbon steels. It's wear resistance and toughness can vary widely with heat treatment, but it is generally tougher than most stainless and less wear resistant than S30V class steels. It is used in everything from traditional slipjoint pocket knives to machetes, and is a suitable choice for almost any application in which rust is not a big issue.

5160 is a "spring steel" that is very similar to a plain carbon steel, with just a dash of chromium added. It is one of the toughest steels used in knife blades, outpacing all the above mentioned steels. It's wear resistance is fair, though it is usually ran a bit soft to maximize it's toughness, in which case wear resistance suffers. It is also rust prone, nearly as much so as 1095, so it is best suited for low-humidity environments. It is used in the deepest jungle in machetes, however, so take that with a grain of salt.

So there you go! I've not heard of SV3, so you're on your own, but for any more info, a forum search or a trip to zknives should be the answer, good luck!
 
Thank you Sodak.
Much accepting some other guys writing and not much individual experience is what I see here.
Many gents here are watching this and holding back who have tested these steels and have Real, accurate, thorough knowledge of them.
I don't really care to discuss testing here as we've done that and it normally turns into a heated debate for favorites.
So, I'll say this: of 440C, 154-cm, S30V and one other ? (notes not in front of me)in edge retention all ran so close they could be lumped together in the same column. Many variables, that batch of heat treated blades, ect.. Cryogenics is hugely important too! Each of these expressed little differences I may prefer. i.e. better stainless, ease of sharpening, not prone to burring, (which gets important in the field as you said you like to hunt and use knives) ect.. Then CPM-154 and S60V cut 5% more than these named. Not a lot. But I don't like sharpening S60V and don't mind CPM-154. Plus, for hunting (use on big game) I'd take the knife that had the shape and grind I found most useful with good stainless and handle gripping abilities of sound heat treat. Not allowing edge retention to be the highest priority. Just my thoughts and hoping to stimulate your thoughts in this stated subject. DM
 
It is easy to think that the steel is nearly everything about a knife, but it is not. As David has said above.
Don't get hung up about the best steel, especially if you are purpose oriented(hunting). Design & execution is more important.
 
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