Different tiers of knife quality? And how drastic are they?

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Good Afternoon everyone,

I am very new to the high end knife society. I recently purchased a Ontario Rat II. I was impressed with the initial quality of the knife once i took it out of the box. It was the first real folding knife i have had. I then purchased the Rat I. Another nice piece. I was cleaning my room the other day and found a old cheapo folder knife i used in my teens. Absolutely atrocious excuse for a knife. Blade play in every direction, the frame could bend with your hands........ you get the picture. Would you say one would feel the same way about the RAT II if they were to purchase a ~$200 Benchmade or Spyderco? Is there THAT big of a difference where one would/could easily justify spending the extra 170 dollars? I don't use my knife for anything extreme or in life or death situations, if i have to touch up the edge every week, it's not the end of the world. Thanks for any input on a somewhat strange question. Have a great day.

Josh
 
I don't know about tiers, so to speak.

Knife quality depends on materials used, design/style, and fit/finish.

For instance a Rat II is actually a nice knife, you probably won't get a lot better for $30. It has 8-AUS steal, nylon handle and a pretty basic styling/design. Chances are that knife probably cuts just about as well as any knife with a similar blade shape. It will probably last you a lifetime unless you abuse it.

OTOH, you could buy a handmade custom with a super steel blade, titanium handle, designed by a top designer, and the build is tight and precise. It may not cut any better than the Rat II, it may not even be more durable than the RAT II but the super steel, fit/finish, and the designer jack the price up by abot 20X that of the Rat II.

Some knives are cheap functional users others are show pieces and there are a lot in between.
 
In general they are pretty drastic.

The best way that I usually approach this questions is this:

NEVER buy a knife you can't both pay cash for AND won't miss the money you spend on it.

When talking about production knives don't expect miracles, there is no 100% perfect knife.

Do not expect to get a flawless knife in the $200 range, if you look hard enough you will usually find something wrong with it.

The extra money goes into the steel, the materials, fit and finish, R&D and other aspects depending on the knife.

That said something like a Spyderco Military will be a solid purchase and the knife will likely last you for the rest of your life.

However do not expect that a $200 will be 7X better or a $400 knife to be 15X better than a $30 knife.

The differences quality will be there and you will be able to see the difference most of the time, however sometimes the differences won't be as easy to see just by looking at it.

As far as justifying it. you are the only one who can do that, it's your money.
 
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That's actually a very good question. The answer, however, can be very subjective.

Most of my knives are around the $100-150 range give or take a bit. I do feel that my Emersons, Protechs, and Spydercos and the like are worth the higher asking price based on materials and workmanship. They are all solidly built knives. That said, I still proudly carry my Rat 1 on occasion and think it can stand up on it's own when compared to these higher offereings. The AUS8 steel gets dull a bit faster and I don't really care for the nylon handles, but the knife can take a mean edge and it is as solid and trustworthy as the rest of them.

So to summarize, I believe they have their place, but it is really up to each individual. If you can afford it and appreciate them for what they are they are surely worth it.
 
Also, I recently bought an Alan Davis knife (a custom maker on the forums) which is step above my other knives in terms of price. I'll carry and use my Emersons and Protechs without a care (within reason of course) but I am still hesitant to take that sexy little thing out into the world. It all depends on what you can afford and what you're comfortable with.

There is almost no wrong answer here as long as its sharp and sturdy.
 
You don't get bonus points for having a $600 knife around here. If all you collect is knives under $100, you are no less respected than someone who has $600+ knives. For the most part all that is require to fit in here is a love for sharp pointy things...;)


Even if you just own the new Gerbers, you can be a part of the community here. Granted, not many people will like your knives if that is the case but to each their own.


I wouldn't have a problem carrying a RAT 2, even though I have much more expensive knives in the collection. Most of my collection is made up of knives that are less than $100 (probably about 25 under $100, the other 10 are between $120-$400). Some of my favorite knives to carry are my SAK Classic Tinker, Case Peanut, and Cryo. You could probably get all three of those for under $75 total.
 
I'll be honest. I've got a Rat 2 and have CRK's. I could carry nothing but a Rat 2 everyday from now on and be just fine because utility-wise it cuts so well, edge retention notwithstanding...and of course have more money in my pocket (with better lockup and upgraded steel and maybe a G10 option, the Rat 2 could be an amazing, long lasting knife), but would I enjoy it as much as carrying something nicer? No, I wouldn't because knives are my hobby too...not just a tool. But if I forced myself to carry only a Rat 2 then you're carrying a knife strictly as a tool and not for both utility AND a hobby.

IMO, you've got to really be an enthusiast to get into higher end knives...it can get addicting and expensive, but those cheaper knives for the most part will do the job just as well. Higher end stuff I think you have to learn to appreciate it for what it is and forget the cost and utility part of it...because an Opinel can be EDC'd and do 99% of the tasks a small Sebenza can. Will you enjoy it just as much? That's up to you.

I never tell someone they need a $300 knife because really no one does. If I already know they're an enthusiast and their taste starts to shift towards higher tiered stuff, then we'll get into that conversation. Some folks have the same frustration that I had buying gobs of lower priced stuff that added up to a shocking amount because I was never satisfied with whatever I bought. My taste started to shift and essentially sold off and traded up into higher tiers. The Rat 2's and the Delicas and the Mini-Grips? They'll always be with me because they're damn good tools and what I'd recommend to anyone needing a damn good tool.
 
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mcrow said:
You don't get bonus points for having a $600 knife around here. If all you collect is knives under $100, you are no less respected than someone who has $600+ knives. For the most part all that is require to fit in here is a love for sharp pointy things...;)


Even if you just own the new Gerbers, you can be a part of the community here. Granted, not many people will like your knives if that is the case but to each their own.


Most of my collection is made up of knives that are less than $100 (probably about 25 under $100.
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I agree with all of this and want to chime in that most of my knives are in this price range too. (Some of the discontinued ones have risen in value but used to be in this range too). Bargain blades are my favorite kind.
 
Almost all my knives are $25 or under minus 3. Kershaw Skyline Damascus which I bought due to it being Damascus even though the normal version would probably fit my needs better due to the blade steel being used. The other 2 are Spyderco Mule Team 18's bought on impulse which I think I will sell as I hardly used one of them and the other was purchased as a backup.

The fit and finish, blade centering,and pretty much everything on the Skyline is about perfect which is nice and well worth the $52 I paid but honestly it doesn't matter much to me for one handed folders as I would typically take them apart to clean them up in the ultrasonic cleaner and fine tune it when I put it back together and make sure I take my time and get a good fit and finish when I am done. Blade materials don't matter to me as much as a lot of other people since I've taken up sharpening as bit of a hobby the idea of sharpening a knife doesn't scare me and it's quick and easy to do so as long as I find the steel to be adequate for it's intended duties I am good.

What's funny is my favorite knife to carry is my Rough Rider Armor Hide Canoe a $10 knife, made in china with 440a steel which beats out far better knives for pocket time. My second runner up a $7 Wenger Patriot. 3rd is my Kershaw Skyline Damascus. At the end of the day I can get them all to take a very sharp edge and it will hold it for quite awhile for EDC purposes even though I feel the first 2 are lacking a bit for heavy duty jobs. One day I hope to get a Case CV Canoe and it will hopefully knock the Rough Rider Canoe off it's throne but even I am not certain it's capable of doing that. That Rough Rider is just too dang comfy in the hand and just "feels right" is the only way I can describe it.

If you don't own one pick up a Opinel they come in carbon steel and stainless, pick the one you want as they are both great steels they use in them and will only set you back around $10. But that $10 will buy you one of the best knives for slicing chores. For quite a few people swear by these knives and refer to them as one of their favorite knives. For me it is the knife I wish I could love as I love their carbon steel and how well the blade works but I just dislike the handle and locking mechanism but it works so well I can't bad mouth them and always recommend them as I seem to be the only one with this issue at times.

Point of all this is to not get caught up into the price point of knives. At the end of the day it really means nothing. What your buying is materials, additional labor for fit and finish, and possibly the brand name with that spare cash and it definitely doesn't buy you performance when it comes to ease of cutting (take an Opinel or SAK for example, either one of those are quite scary when sharpened correctly). Buy what you want and enjoy it just don't fall victim into thinking that high end is the only way to go.
 
I started buying knives when I was around 12 years old, and had stopped by 16 or so because I needed every last cent to buy a car. It wasn't until a few years ago, in my 30s, when I next bought a knife, and I too was quite surprised by the difference in quality. With the exception of a Victorinox, all the knives of my youth were honestly pretty awful. Although I have bought a couple of duds since then, most of my purchases - even at $15 or so - have been money well spent. The knives I carry daily (a habit now, but foreign to me as recently as two years ago) are right around that $15 point, my main "hard use" knife around $30 and my current favorite under $50. It wasn't until a few months ago that I bought my first Zero Tolerance folder, followed by two Benchmades.

Are the more expensive knives better? For the most part, yes, but the improvements over a less expensive knife may not be apparent without frequent use, and not even then depending on how demanding you are. You mentioned the Ontario Rat, which is a pretty highly regarded "high value" knife on this forum. I don't own one, but I do own a similarly priced Ontario Utilitac, and for the amount of work I do with a knife, it will provide all the same functions as the Benchmade I bought for $100 more. Now, that Benchmade was built in the US from superior steel, but can I realistically expect to ever see better functionality from it than from the Ontario? Again, probably not given what I typically use a knife for, although I would expect the Benchmade to hold an edge longer. Beyond that, it's more about appreciating the finer points in knife construction, which is the point I'm at now. I have enough EDC folders and outdoor hunting/fishing/camping fixed blades to last me a lifetime and then some, so now it's more about finding knives that I can really appreciate for what they are rather than what they do.

That said, once serious collecting enters the picture, all bets are off.
 
If you don't care about(or even enjoy) sharpening your knives then IMO no, there's no reason to buy an expensive knife unless you just WANT an expensive knife. I will say that with inexpensive knives you have to be more selective to get a good one. The rat folders, the SAKs, the opinels are all good and they'll do the job just like any other knife. In some cases even better. The only thing that people can really knock IMO is the edge holding but for general edc that's a non-issue if you think about what you really use a knife for in day to day life. If you have a job cutting abrasive materials all day then it might be best to get a higher quality steel. Or just use a box knife like 99% of the rest of the world. :D
 
Inazone said:
I started buying knives when I was around 12 years old, and had stopped by 16 or so because I needed every last cent to buy a car. It wasn't until a few years ago, in my 30s, when I next bought a knife, and I too was quite surprised by the difference in quality. With the exception of a Victorinox, all the knives of my youth were honestly pretty awful. Although I have bought a couple of duds since then, most of my purchases - even at $15 or so - have been money well spent. The knives I carry daily (a habit now, but foreign to me as recently as two years ago) are right around that $15 point, my main "hard use" knife around $30 and my current favorite under $50. It wasn't until a few months ago that I bought my first Zero Tolerance folder, followed by two Benchmades.

Are the more expensive knives better? For the most part, yes, but the improvements over a less expensive knife may not be apparent without frequent use, and not even then depending on how demanding you are. You mentioned the Ontario Rat, which is a pretty highly regarded "high value" knife on this forum. I don't own one, but I do own a similarly priced Ontario Utilitac, and for the amount of work I do with a knife, it will provide all the same functions as the Benchmade I bought for $100 more. Now, that Benchmade was built in the US from superior steel, but can I realistically expect to ever see better functionality from it than from the Ontario? Again, probably not given what I typically use a knife for, although I would expect the Benchmade to hold an edge longer. Beyond that, it's more about appreciating the finer points in knife construction, which is the point I'm at now. I have enough EDC folders and outdoor hunting/fishing/camping fixed blades to last me a lifetime and then some, so now it's more about finding knives that I can really appreciate for what they are rather than what they do.

That said, once serious collecting enters the picture, all bets are off.
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I tend to only buy knives I'd have no problem actually using frequently. The idea of spending close to $1000 on a knife is very foreign to me given that I intend to use every knife I buy. If it is so expensive and pretty that I just want to put it in a case and not touch it, for my purposes it is a terrible knife. Not that there is anything wrong with having show piece knives, I just have no interest in owning them.
 
In my opinion $100 is pretty much the point of diminishing returns. Below that you usually get significant improvements in function per-dollar, above that it's more about finish, exotic materials and style (branding and exclusivity).

I love my high end knives but I've been EDCing a Victorinox and an OLFA for more than a year now.
 
Levels in quality will include materials, fit and finish, and proper techniques in heat treat. As many have said, you'd be hard-pressed to find a better value than the RAT-1. You can think of that as the bare minimum in price, and work up from there to factor in bladesteel, handle materials, design and innovation, embellishments, exclusivity, uniqueness, and availability. Those last four intangible characteristics calls off all bets as far as price is concerned.
 
Joshua J. said:
In my opinion $100 is pretty much the point of diminishing returns. Below that you usually get significant improvements in function per-dollar, above that it's more about finish, exotic materials and style (branding and exclusivity).

I love my high end knives but I've been EDCing a Victorinox and an OLFA for more than a year now.
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I think you can get good upgrades in performance up to about $150, that is where a lot of the super steels are availible. However, most people don't need a super steel for their EDC purposes. IMO, for the average guy/gal around here spending more than probably $75 for an EDC is the most you need if talking purely function/peformance.

Like for me, I work in an office. I might cut up an orange at lunch, open some boxes, maybe break down a box or two. You can get away with 8cr13mov or AUS-8 and they will work very nice and sharpen very easily. They may not hold an edge all day if you use it a lot for your job but for most people these two steels will perform very well and will put knives in a very affordable price range.
 
It depends on the qualities that you are looking for. People buy knives for all sorts of reasons; some are paying big money to obtain a good example of an obscure knife, Some want a knife because of its historical association or because a particular maker made it; others are looking purely at the aesthetics and are willing to pay for knife-like-art; and yes many are concerned with performance, but even there you have a drastically diminishing return once you get pass the basic functional knife. The bottom line is that people buy what they like and are interested in, and there is no rhyme and reason to what the market likes and whatever it is is guaranteed to change over time.

From the individual's perspective the tiers would probably be best expressed in terms of $$. Depending on their comfort level, knife buyers become more and more willing to sink bigger dollars into whatever they collect. They may start off at $100 and climb into the several thousands as they develop into more sophisticated collectors. However, it is unlikely and unwise for a guy who usually buys $200 knives to leap into a $5,000 knife. It may be the best knife at the best price, but our $200 collector really has no way of knowing that with any certainty.

n2s
 
not2sharp said:
It depends on the qualities that you are looking for. People buy knives for all sorts of reasons; some are paying big money to obtain a good example of an obscure knife, Some want a knife because of its historical association or because a particular maker made it; others are looking purely at the aesthetics and are willing to pay for knife-like-art; and yes many are concerned with performance, but even there you have a drastically diminishing return once you get pass the basic functional knife. The bottom line is that people buy what they like and are interested in, and there is no rhyme and reason to what the market likes and whatever it is is guaranteed to change over time.

From the individual's perspective the tiers would probably be best expressed in terms of $$. Depending on their comfort level, knife buyers become more and more willing to sink bigger dollars into whatever they collect. They may start off at $100 and climb into the several thousands as they develop into more sophisticated collectors. However, it is unlikely and unwise for a guy who usually buys $200 knives to leap into a $5,000 knife. It may be the best knife at the best price, but our $200 collector really has no way of knowing that with any certainty.

n2s
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It all comes down to what's important to the individual....

  1. Low Cost
  2. High Quality
  3. High Performance
  4. Moderate Performance
  5. Moderate Quality
 
The major differences that I notice are in the blade-steels, the scale materials and in the locking mechanisms. Of course, the degree of precision utilized in the manufacture of these knives is also tremendously important, and perhaps best recognized by the handling and operating of these blades. Yes, there are drastic differences, even though they all "cut."
 
Ive been collecting for about two years now and the whole first year I didnt own a knife over 40$. At the time I didnt believe the higher priced knives were worth the money, its a knife as long as it cuts it works were my feelings. I couldnt have been more wrong! Now in the second year I dont really buy many knives under 100$. Its because I now what I like more mostly but also Ive seen what you get for the money. In most cases your get better steel, materials, warranties, holds edge longer, and just last alot longer. Thats what I like and look for now
 
There's certainly diminishing returns of fit and finish vs. price. And price needs to be normalized against location. It's hard to find a well-made $30 of USA origin, whereas $30 can get you a decent Chinese knife. And there's some knives that always seem a little overpriced for the materials used (SOG comes to mind).
I think what you get with more and more money is really interesting designs. Collaborations between production knife companies like Spyderco and small custom designers can run you north of $200 but a lot of times are fascinating designs that would cost a lot more as a custom. Also if you're really into particular materials (titanium) or refinements (light weight) then your options open up as you throw more money at a knife.
I never got into $100+ knives. The priciest thing I have is a Manix2. Lately I've opened up my mind a bit and realized there are a lot of really interesting Chinese-made knives from CRKT, Kershaw, Boker+ that I've been ignoring (largely because I had trouble distinguishing the mid-range stuff from the hundreds of crap $10 blades that they also sell. There's a lot of fun to be had in the cheaper knives.
 
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